Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest TheJTS98]

2 hours ago, D.A.F.C said:

I’d feel ashamed to be a board member sitting at a meeting discussing how to make money or exclude people just now. I’m guessing that this is going on though. This is where governments could step in and create a worldwide fund and supply chain, guess what won’t happen.

The top echelons of business employ some people who will do anything to make money and progress their careers.

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20171102-do-psychopaths-really-make-better-leaders

 

[SlipperyP]

6 hours ago, Snafu said:

It's typically German, they have a Plan B, and a Plan C if B doesn't work, probably a Plan D as well and so on.

What's our plan if Plan A fails?

As the Great British spirit of the second world war we will sit tight and take the shelling until the good old USA and Russia get their acts together and come and help us.

[dirty dingus]

People saying there should be no profit in a pandemic, was that not Bozos whole early stratagy? Let it rip throught the population take the collateral damage and once we had herd immunity we could thrive economically as other nations tried to fight it?

https://mondediplo.com/2020/04/02coronavirus-uk

[Steven W]

Encouraging news to have another vaccine hopefully on the go in a few months.

Struck me though, that the efficacy claims they make are surely based upon living with restrictions / social distancing etc. 

Will the efficacy numbers be quite so good were we acting like we were this time last year?

[Michael W]

Remember also that the efficacy percentages for Moderna and Pfizer did not account for asymptomatic infection either. AZ's numbers did, but no idea about the other vaccines with trial results (Sputnik, Sinovac & NovaVax). Therefore the efficacy of the first two is probably artificially high. 

The point I keep coming back to is that the efficacy is only one aspect of all this. AZ's headline figure is lower but no one was seriously ill or hospitalised. Similarly Pfizer/Moderna also showed that people did not become seriously ill if they did catch it - these vaccines do what they are most importantly needed to do and stop serious illness. They will prevent the healthcare system being overwhelmed. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Michael W

[Dunning1874]

7 hours ago, Left Back said:

Do you hold shares in AZ or any of the other vaccine manufacturers?  What gives you the right to proclaim that shareholders in those businesses should donate their money to fixing the world?

many of these shareholders won’t even know they have shares.  It will be through their pension funds.  Your approach is therefore reducing pension income for many people which then causes its own problems further down the line.  The CEO of a company can’t ignore these things or he could (rightly) end up in jail.

stating that business should fund societal issues is naive in the extreme.

ETA.  At no point did I say business should be making a profit.  AZ (at the moment) have stated they won’t.  They shouldn’t make a loss though.  It should be funded through governments, not business.  
 

I’ve seen nothing to indicate the American drug companies are taking such a stance although I haven’t actually looked if they have or not.

By the same token then, if they have no societal responsibility and the taxpayer should bear all the cost once they've successfully developed a vaccine, AZ and other pharmaceutical companies can give up all the public money shovelled at them for research, or at the very least governments should be granted shares to the value of their colossal funding.

[superbigal]

What the vaccine manufacturers could really do if this is not for profit, is to share the intellectual properties with other companies. Then manufacturing could spring up all over the world. Particularly in areas like Africa.
I do not really understand the secrecy around solving a global problem. Particularly with a low cost version such as AZ.

[Bairnardo]

What the vaccine manufacturers could really do if this is not for profit, is to share the intellectual properties with other companies. Then manufacturing could spring up all over the world. Particularly in areas like Africa.
I do not really understand the secrecy around solving a global problem. Particularly with a low cost version such as AZ.

This is the thing I have wondered about, and despite the obvious reluctance to do so from governments, I wonder why they havent went right, this is a global state of emergency, you hold the patents and whatever but until we have a grip on this, give the recipe to anyone who has a facility capable of making it.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Must be all sorts of IP shit wrapped up in vaccines tbf.

[vikingTON]

28 minutes ago, Snafu said:

What we are seeing with vaccine orders is vaccine hoarding, which is bizarre behaviour especially considering the worst offenders who condemned a number of the public for panic buying and stripping supermarket shelves pre lockdown.

Unless you're referring to the likes of the SG's piss-poor rollout exercise then that's not the case right now. Countries ordered well above their population total in futures because not all vaccine candidates would necessarily prove successful back when the bidding process began from the middle of 2020. That's the smart thing to do.

The only issue to be addressed with that is what happens now that vaccine success rate has proven to be high and there should be excess stock down the line. It would make sense for governments to waive their claims and let them be distributed straight to the developing world instead of being sent first to the UK to fulfill a deal, sit around for a while and then be shipped abroad again.

Edited January 29, 2021 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

9 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Must be all sorts of IP shit wrapped up in vaccines tbf.

'Mah intellectual property rights' while treating a global public health crisis is guillotine talk. 

[ICTChris]

Thread about the Novovax results.

Some potentially bad news about reinfection in the study.

[Todd_is_God]

There is a suggestion that it may be less effective in HIV+ positive people rather than the virus itself, which would make sense.

Still not getting seriously ill, though, which is they key thing.

[Elixir]

2 hours ago, Michael W said:

Remember also that the efficacy percentages for Moderna and Pfizer did not account for asymptomatic infection either. AZ's numbers did, but no idea about the other vaccines with trial results (Sputnik, Sinovac & NovaVax). Therefore the efficacy of the first two is probably artificially high. 

The point I keep coming back to is that the efficacy is only one aspect of all this. AZ's headline figure is lower but no one was seriously ill or hospitalised. Similarly Pfizer/Moderna also showed that people did not become seriously ill if they did catch it - these vaccines do what they are most importantly needed to do and stop serious illness. They will prevent the healthcare system being overwhelmed. 

It is rather infuriating that this fundamental point is overlooked. If there is enough vaccine uptake, even if people are still 'testing positive', it is highly likely they are going to be experiencing very mild symptoms. The same is true of any re-infections. Therefore: not going into hospital.

'Efficacy results' of 50%, or 60% in those HIV negative (so more relevant outside of Africa), is what most scientists were anticipating before trial results were first published. The headline results for the 'original variants' show just how effective they will be once booster shots account for 'new variants'.

[Bairnardo]

It is rather infuriating that this fundamental point is overlooked. If there is enough vaccine uptake, even if people are still 'testing positive', it is highly likely they are going to be experiencing very mild symptoms. The same is true of any re-infections. Therefore: not going into hospital.
'Efficacy results' of 50%, or 60% in those HIV negative (so more relevant outside of Africa), is what most scientists were anticipating before trial results were first published. The headline results for the 'original variants' show just how effective they will be once booster shots account for 'new variants'.

Watch asymptomatic testing go through the roof once it becomes clear the vaccine is meeting its previously stated aims of getting the pressure off the NHS

[SlipperyP]

Just had to get a letter from my local head council, that myself and family can leave the province on Sunday (very essential), then hand it into the province HQ office and wait for the all clear from 7 provinces that I can travel through to my destination. Was also TOLD to buy a smartphone for province border click on the fingy thing.

Anything like that happening to the special residents of the UK ?

[madwullie]

51 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Thread about the Novovax results.
 

 

Some potentially bad news about reinfection in the study.

 

We need to stop acting like vaccines alone will solve this. Even the hulk needed the avengers sometimes. 

Ouch  

He also says the study was not powered to address efficacy against severe disease. 

There's always some bad news is with the good news. I guess that's just something we need to deal with. Maybe gives some insight into why govts aren't projecting mass lifting of restrictions as soon as we would like. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by madwullie

[Bairnardo]

We need to stop acting like vaccines alone will solve this. Even the hulk needed the avengers sometimes. 
Ouch [emoji17] 
He also says the study was not powered to address efficacy against severe disease. 

The only thing that needs to be "solved" is hospital capacity being able to manage any severe cases that slip through the net.

So aye, they absolutely can solve this.

[Left Back]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

2 hours ago, superbigal said:

What the vaccine manufacturers could really do if this is not for profit, is to share the intellectual properties with other companies. Then manufacturing could spring up all over the world. Particularly in areas like Africa.
I do not really understand the secrecy around solving a global problem. Particularly with a low cost version such as AZ.

This is the thing I have wondered about, and despite the obvious reluctance to do so from governments, I wonder why they havent went right, this is a global state of emergency, you hold the patents and whatever but until we have a grip on this, give the recipe to anyone who has a facility capable of making it.

Sanofi has volunteered one of its facilities to make biontech.  I think its actually the shed in the garden of the facility as they’re only aiming for 125m doses per year.

[LongTimeLurker]

3 minutes ago, madwullie said:

We need to stop acting like vaccines alone will solve this. Even the hulk needed the avengers sometimes. 

Ouch  

Except vaccines alone can solve this and a lot of these tweets are about attention seeking more than anything else. The vaccines can be adjusted to fit new variants as they emerge and booster shots can be provided on that basis.