Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Elixir]

22 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I think it will depend on how many Tory rebels there will be, IMO not many. Hopefully the Lib Dems will vote against it and I'd like to think the SNP would as well, purely as lining the pockets of Boris's pals is something they've previously voiced an opinion about

If Labour's position is to vote against and they're whipped into doing so, then combined with the Liberals I think there will certainly be enough Tory rebels to torpedo it into the bin.

[Thereisalight..]

1 minute ago, Elixir said:

If Labour's position is to vote against and they're whipped into doing so, then combined with the Liberals I think there will certainly be enough Tory rebels to torpedo it into the bin.

I'd certainly hope so but knowing BJ he'd probably offer some sort of sweetener to the rebels to make them either vote for it or abstain

[deegee]

Get this passport nonsense kicked right out. Maybe there is some merit for certain overseas travel, although the uptake on vaccination numbers at the destination country will be a factor. Why on earth would I need a passport to enter specified (hospitality and leisure) venues as well as stadiums but for the past year the supermarkets have had “week before Christmas” sales and footfall basically every week?

Are the governments seriously thinking a vaccine passport will be a requirement to enter the likes of Stirling Albion’s Forthbank ground with 500 fans but not next door at Morrison supermarket on a Saturday afternoon? Similarly with other grounds the length and breadth of the country.

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, deegee said:

Get this passport nonsense kicked right out. Maybe there is some merit for certain overseas travel, although the uptake on vaccination numbers at the destination country will be a factor. Why on earth would I need a passport to enter specified (hospitality and leisure) venues as well as stadiums but for the past year the supermarkets have had “week before Christmas” sales and footfall basically every week?

Are the governments seriously thinking a vaccine passport will be a requirement to enter the likes of Stirling Albion’s Forthbank ground with 500 fans but not next door at Morrison supermarket on a Saturday afternoon? Similarly with other grounds the length and breadth of the country.

It's even more hilarious when you consider the current proposal where I could travel from Glasgow to Aberdeen on a train without any requirement for one, have a few beers in a pub, again without one, but then need a passport to get into Pittodrie

I understand that the thinking might be to reassure the people they have spent the last 13 months telling they will die if the get within 2m of another person that large gatherings and things like nightclubs etc are safe to resume, but by seemingly ignoring, or having no idea how people will travel to these things, they just sound daft.

However I think's its more likely there are a small band of people trying to find some justification for bringing in an ordinarily completely unpalatable data tracking system in order to satisfy a decision and commitment made months ago, despite any actual need for it no longer existing.

[Ginaro]

Some updated excess death numbers 

 

[Elixir]

Things like this is what happens when you piss around in the ethical minefield of medical coercion, rather than simply focusing on getting consent through clear, positive communication and engagement. Clowns.

Quote

 

Comedy club pulls out of government trial

As we reported earlier a comedy club in Liverpool received a deluge of abuse after it was inaccurately reported to be involved in a Covid vaccine passport scheme over the weekend.

Now the Hot Water Comedy Club says as a result of "misleading press releases/media articles and the confusing messaging on the official government website" it has made the decision not to be part of any government programme.

"We have still not managed to speak to anybody in the government about this," a statement says.

 

[Have some faith in Magic]

As with most of these things, follow the money with regards to vaccine passports. 

[Elixir]

I think I actually hate the SNP now. Never again will they get my vote.

[Todd_is_God]

Clear indication that Sturgeon wants them up here then.

[Left Back]

Isobel Oakshott basically saying OK for international, nah for domestic, on Sky News at the moment.

the world is screwed if I’m agreeing with Isobel Oakshott.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

23 minutes ago, Elixir said:

I think I actually hate the SNP now. Never again will they get my vote.

I'd be astounded if that happens. No way do the SNP support the Tories in a vote, especially during an election campaign. It would be electoral suicide. To give this context, not even Labour are supporting it. Or even abstaining for once. 

[Elixir]

35 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Clear indication that Sturgeon wants them up here then.

It's exactly the sort of weirdo policy the SNP seem to love. You just know 'new normal' biosecurity fetishists like Sridhar will be all for it as well and in their ear. The utter audacity and hypocrisy of which given how much she rallied against the apparent two-tier society a 'protect the vulnerable' strategy would supposedly create.

Despite the fact the WHO are now officially opposing vaccine passports, even for international travel. The SNP certainly seem to appear to like citing WHO advice...

Meanwhile, it seems they won't be a thing in America, though I don't see how they ever could given how different it would make already divided Democrat and Republican states.

26 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Isobel Oakshott basically saying OK for international, nah for domestic, on Sky News at the moment.

the world is screwed if I’m agreeing with Isobel Oakshott.

It is truly a bizarre time. I have found myself agreeing with and seeing more sense from people who I typically thought of as my political polar opposite.

[Left Back]

28 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'd be astounded if that happens. No way do the SNP support the Tories in a vote, especially during an election campaign. It would be electoral suicide. To give this context, not even Labour are supporting it. Or even abstaining for once. 

Will the vote even happen before the election?

[ICTChris]

It won’t be electoral suicide. Not only are vaccine passports very popular the numbers of voters who currently plan to vote SNP but would change their vote because of this is probably in the dozens.

[Wee Bully]

Exactly.
You can spend 5 minutes on Google, find something credible which completely debunks Sridhar or Leitch’s drivel, present it to them online and probably get a block because it touches a nerve (ignoring the fact that logic alone would clamp them a peach)
It’s not about being an expert, it’s about using articles/facts from people who do know what they’re on about to challenge and question. Is the alternative just to let experts and politicians away with whatever they like?

You see, this is where it all falls down.

I’ve specialised in my field (VAT - not the most interesting) for 25 years.

I give advice to clients, and sometimes they google something (normally because I’ve told them something they didn’t want to hear) and present it to me with a flourish. Without fail, it has been wrong, or they have misunderstood what they have read.

I love it, as it gives me the chance to explain in painfully small (but expensive) steps, just why they were wrong.

Google doesn’t make you an expert. Everything is there. Sometimes, however, you need to either have some experience, or read around the easy answer you’ve found.

Now this is just VAT - the easiest of the taxes (as my corporate tax colleagues tell me). Virology or epidemiology? I think they might be a wee bit more complicated.

However, if you think “5 minutes on google” makes you an expert, launch in.

[anotherchance]

4 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

You see, this is where it all falls down.

I’ve specialised in my field (VAT - not the most interesting) for 25 years.

I give advice to clients, and sometimes they google something (normally because I’ve told them something they didn’t want to hear) and present it to me with a flourish. Without fail, it has been wrong, or they have misunderstood what they have read.

I love it, as it gives me the chance to explain in painfully small (but expensive) steps, just why they were wrong.

Google doesn’t make you an expert. Everything is there. Sometimes, however, you need to either have some experience, or read around the easy answer you’ve found.

Now this is just VAT - the easiest of the taxes (as my corporate tax colleagues tell me). Virology or epidemiology? I think they might be a wee bit more complicated.

However, if you think “5 minutes on google” makes you an expert, launch in.

It doesn't make me an expert, however it gives me easy access to articles experts who are often able to articulate in relative layman's terms a particular point of view, or why they think another expert might be wrong in their approach.

Today is a good example - couple of decent articles in the Telegraph about why the latest government modelling is wrong, based on out of date data etc. The articles are logical and make sense to me.

Should I therefore not be allowed to question the initial modelling on the basis that I've no expertise in modelling data, or come to the conclusion that we're being led up the garden path?  It might be that more information comes to light as to why the original modelling was accurate, and things like Twitter allow for the conversation to flow and for both sides to understand the debate and intricacies better.

If we're discouraged from challenging things simply because others have a better understanding of it than we do, then we're all absolutely fucked I'm afraid.

 

 

[Lyle Lanley]

Quote

A KEY Covid adviser to Nicola Sturgeon has warned that the UK is already repeating the mistakes it made last summer with lockdown easing.

Professor Devi Sridhar, chair of global public health at Edinburgh University, today said easing up restrictions when it comes to travel might be a "mistake".

Speaking on Good Morning Britain Prof Sridhar said: "Why are we focused on holidays abroad? It feels like we are repeating the mistakes of last summer.

“We have just got schools back open, we are just getting pubs and hospitality back on their feet, let’s focus on a full domestic recovery.

“Getting back to some normal daily life within the country and then we can look at getting aviation going.

“I’m afraid it we accelerate too quickly then there could potentially be another lockdown, and no one wants another lockdown, we can’t do this again.”

Last summer Scots were able to go on holiday and travel to certain countries.

Throughout the summer months quarantine rules came into play for people returning from trips abroad, in order to make sure that if they had picked up an infection on holiday they did not bring it home with them.

Prof Shridhar said one of the pain issues with people returning to the UK from their trips abroad is the amount of money they are given to self isolate.

She added: "We have to remember that isolation is an act of goodwill, you isolate to not infect others, you are already infected yourself or you are potentially carrying the virus.

 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/6924670/lockdown-professor-devi-sridhar-scotland-travel/

[Lyle Lanley]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-set-out-hampden-fan-23864627

[Lurkst]

If our vaccine passports look something like this I'm all for them...

[Theroadlesstravelled]

31 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

If our vaccine passports look something like this I'm all for them...

Big team found.