Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[WhiteRoseKillie]

8 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

That's not the story I get from my pals who are teachers though. Always difficult to compare careers but teachers are, based on what I hear, constantly complaining about doing marking out of hours and having to complete stuff on Sundays etc. Given my age most of the teachers are in the first 5 years of their careers, perhaps the more learned teachers fit into the "1500 and I'm outta here" bracket. 

Outside of virginton's fevered wee head, I would be surprised if 1% of teachers fall into this bracket. Like many Public Sector jobs (mine included), you don't become a teacher to make the big bucks. You do it because that's what you want to do - make a difference.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Outside of virginton's fevered wee head, I would be surprised if 1% of teachers fall into this bracket. Like many Public Sector jobs (mine included), you don't become a teacher to make the big bucks. You do it because that's what you want to do - make a difference.

Are teachers not well paid?

[Wee Willie]

21 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Given that I've said I was currently in favour of independence (and being in the EU) I clearly do.

You seem to be of the opinion that it would be absolutely impossible for the political landscape of the UK to ever change to allow Scotland to be an equal partner as it has a small percentage of the population, yet this is exactly what it would have in the EU.

My point is simply that, however unlikely it might appear right now, should that shift happen then it is a choice that needs to be given serious consideration ahead of your "Independence at any cost" mantra.

But in the EU there are 27 (?) countries and each one gets one vote in the Council of the EU.

in the UK there are 4 (?) countries and England has 500+ votes while Scotland has 59.

That circumstance will no happen in my lifetime or in yours and that is why my mantra is ' independence at any cost'

For the UK to play with the big boys they must have nuclear weapons. Could you really ever see a Westminster government saying we'll get rid of Trident because Scotland has consistently said they dinnae want it in Scottish waters.

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

But in the EU there are 27 (?) countries and each one gets one vote in the Council of the EU.

in the UK there are 4 (?) countries and England has 500+ votes while Scotland has 59.

That circumstance will no happen in my lifetime or in yours and that is why my mantra is ' independence at any cost'

For the UK to play with the big boys they must have nuclear weapons. Could you really ever see a Westminster government saying we'll get rid of Trident because Scotland has consistently said they dinnae want it in Scottish waters.

I did say there was no point in me answering your question with a hypothetical scenario as you would just tell me I was wrong anyway.

Thank you for confirming that.

[Wee Willie]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

I did say there was no point in me answering your question with a hypothetical scenario as you would just tell me I was wrong anyway.

Thank you for confirming that.

?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

10 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Are teachers not well paid?

Given the extra hours that they put in, as mentioned above, not especially well paid for a graduate-level position.

As for the "look at all the holidays" jibe, two points - they're inflexible, and when are package and other holidays much more expensive?*

*And resorts not swarming with kids harder to find.

ETA: A quick Google reveals a full-time teacher in E&W gets 24k starting rising to 35k. Nowhere near enough for someone who you're entrusting the future of the Nation's youth to.

Pretty fucking sweet for a childminder, mind. Which do you think the Government want our (State School) teachers to act as?

Edited June 22, 2020 by WhiteRoseKillie

[vikingTON]

13 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Outside of virginton's fevered wee head, I would be surprised if 1% of teachers fall into this bracket. Like many Public Sector jobs (mine included), you don't become a teacher to make the big bucks. You do it because that's what you want to do - make a difference.

Except of course when your students can't actually learn due to a coronavirus pandemic, at which point they're on their own because I'm not giving up my February ski break to help those scum complete the course. 

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Given the extra hours that they put in, as mentioned above, not especially well paid for a graduate-level position.

As for the "look at all the holidays" jibe, two points - they're inflexible, and when are package and other holidays much more expensive?*

*And resorts not swarming with kids harder to find.

Good point, fully 13 weeks of paid holiday is an essentially meaningless perk when they're fixed in the calendar every year. 

We're really through the looking glass now.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Except of course when your students can't actually learn due to a coronavirus pandemic, at which point they're on their own because I'm not giving up my February ski break to help those scum complete the course. 

Why is it that you've got such a hard-on for teachers, when you've clearly met very few in a professional capacity?

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Bairn has been told the current plan is they'll be back 6 days a month in August.

6 (six) days a fucking month.

 

[Marshmallo]

27 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Every organisation ahs at least one level of superfluous management - this crisis has shone a spotlight on them. 

Not sure anyone can make that sweeping generalisation but you go for it.

[Wee Willie]

28 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

It really is quite apparent at times which posters (like me and, I assume, yourself) work in unionised workplaces, and those who have to eat shít from their bosses on a daily basis. What would be funny were it not so tragic is that many of the same posters adhere to the "unions are a Bad Thing" mantra perpetuated by those exact same employers. Add in a tendency to describe any kind of social or economic justice as "Loony Left madness", and you have the Tory party's perect voter - a cretin with a place on the Electoral Roll.

Do the unions still have a political levy in favour of the Labour Party?

Way back in page 1913 I posted something for you which you never replied.

I've also posted it in the Politics forum - What is the point of Labour - page 221

______________

I realise most of my posting in this forum are political instead of virus related but sometimes they interchange

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Given the extra hours that they put in, as mentioned above, not especially well paid for a graduate-level position.

As for the "look at all the holidays" jibe, two points - they're inflexible, and when are package and other holidays much more expensive?*

*And resorts not swarming with kids harder to find.

Meh, I tend to disagree. I mean we're not paying our teachers Luxemburg levels but it's enough to live a very comfortable life.

I never said anything about holidays.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just now, virginton said:

Good point, fully 13 weeks of paid holiday is an essentially meaningless perk when they're fixed in the calendar every year. 

We're really through the looking glass now.

Nah, through the looking glass is where those pixies live which produce all the lesson plans, project work and the like ready to drop on these entitled fops' desks on the first day of term.

I've no doubt that no teachers ever attend training or courses to improve their performance outside of term time either. Because that would be mad.

Marking of pupils' work all gets done in class time as well, in your fantasy world, I suppose?

[Gaz]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

Good point, fully 13 weeks of paid holiday is an essentially meaningless perk when they're fixed in the calendar every year. 

We're really through the looking glass now.

I'm (deliberately) not getting involved in this, but quick point of order - we don't have 13 weeks of paid holiday a year.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

Not sure anyone can make that sweeping generalisation but you go for it.

I just did, and didn't need your permission to do so. What a maverick, eh?

[madwullie]

32 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

It's a source of constant bafflement (American police unions aside) why someone could look at a sector where the workforce has power and influence over their working conditions and thinks to themself "I don't like that they have a good wage and pension. They should lose those things and be like me instead." instead of  "I like that they have a good wage and pension. I'm going to form a union and get that for myself too."

I say this slightly sarcastically as 40 years of the press saying unions are terrible bad things has done it's job to seep into people's minds without them even sitting down and consciously deciding they thought this. I doubt a majority of opponents of unions could articulate why they hold this position.

It's the tory way.

For some reason people have been goaded into a race to the bottom to the extent that when, eg, teachers go on strike for better conditions, their first response is, well I get shit pay, crap holidays and treated like shite so they should too, rather than, ooh unionising has benefits, maybe we should agitate for the conditions we deserve too. 

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Why is it that you've got such a hard-on for teachers, when you've clearly met very few in a professional capacity?

Lol wut

I've both met plenty in a professional capacity and know many on a personal basis as well. Some of them are even able to drop the pretence and admit that they're not doing much at all right now and chose the job chiefly for the pay and holidays. That both this and the facts of the teaching profession's shameless, self-centred approach to dealing with the current crisis in education do not fit the martyr narrative that the bulk of that profession wants to peddle is really not my problem.

Edited June 22, 2020 by vikingTON

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

Do the unions still have a political levy in favour of the Labour Party?

Way back in page 1913 I posted something for you which you never replied.

I've also posted it in the Politics forum - What is the point of Labour - page 221

______________

I realise most of my posting in this forum are political instead of virus related but sometimes they interchange

Not as such. Some are affiliated to the Labour Party, others (mine included - POA) have a political fund which is spent in furthering the interests of the members.* This rarely, if ever, sees money go to the Tories, but in our case we have had dealings with the Greens, Plaid and others in the past.

I am, personally, a member of the Labour Party, but that's my choice.

*In our case, and I assume other Unions' this is by mandate of Conference.

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Nah, through the looking glass is where those pixies live which produce all the lesson plans, project work and the like ready to drop on these entitled fops' desks on the first day of term.

I've no doubt that no teachers ever attend training or courses to improve their performance outside of term time either. Because that would be mad.

Marking of pupils' work all gets done in class time as well, in your fantasy world, I suppose?

Doing administrative tasks outside of the workplace is part and parcel of just about every job in modern society champ, get off your cross. The bulk of them are far more complex than marking the 5x table in front of Coronation Street as well.