WhiteRoseKillie Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 15 hours ago, Musketeer Gripweed said: The pubs and the health centres closing at roughly the same time were completely unrelated? We can go for a pint now, which is great, but some health related treatments are not allowed to resume yet because of this virus doesn't sit right with me. Anyobody who says we're "following the science" in any way, in a world where you can get royally pissed, and join in the scrum at Sports Direct or Primark, but not get treatment for time-sensitive medical issue oreven an appointment at your GP or a Dental check-up, is talking right out of their arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, WATTOO said: I get what you're saying and it is a difficult one, from a personal perspective I'm fully intending on travelling to Catalonia in September (as things stand just now) as personally I see the risk as acceptable but if we're looking at zero risk and completely eradicating the virus then borders should probably be closed and that would most definitely include the Scotland / England border. This is the part that I think is being missed in Europe. It's fine to say that 'we think Country X has appropriate measures in place', but the bottom line is that no country has any control over what is actually happening elsewhere. It's no use Scotland doing a good job with this but then re-importing the virus from holidays to any number of other countries. I agree about England. I think where there are different health authorities it makes sense to have travel bans imposed. I love holidays as much as your next guy. But there are some things I think we just have to accept about our current situation. It's shite, but taking it on the chin for longer than the minimum might mean that long-term it is shite for less time overall. The UK situation isn't my immediate concern since I don't live there. But there's no way Malaysia lets me go home for a holiday and come back until the UK gets a good grasp on this. While that's annoying, I understand and support it as a policy. I just don't see the rationale for travel at this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have some faith in Magic Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said: Hearing mutterings that the infected folk in Lanarkshire were recently given a training course by a management group from down south. Who in their right mind is putting on group training courses in person at the moment!? Especially in call centres where the whole point of call centering is not conducting face to face activities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Lockdownshire IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, JTS98 said: This is t he part that I think is being missed in Europe.It's fine to say that 'we think Country X has appropriate measures in place', but the bottom line is that no country has any control over what is actually happening elsewhere. It's no use Scotland doing a good job with this but then re-importing the virus from holidays to any number of other countries. I agree about England. I think where there are different health authorities it makes sense to have travel bans imposed. I love holidays as much as your next guy. But there are some things I think we just have to accept about our current situation. It's shite, but taking it on the chin for longer than the minimum might mean that long-term it is shite for less time overall. The UK situation isn't my immediate concern since I don't live there. But there's no way Malaysia lets me go home for a holiday and come back until the UK gets a good grasp on this. While that's annoying, I understand and support it as a policy. I just don't see the rationale for travel at this point. It's definitely politics at play as they're terrified of certain countries reverting to a nationalist inward thinking mentality with closed borders and fear that the political contagion may spread, of course the flip side of this is allowing a viral contagion to spread instead and of course the fall out in real terms could easily be much much worse if it isn't already there. For all we like to voice our own opinions on here and have a tendency to be critical of those in powerful and influential positions, I've got to be totally honest and say that I don't envy the position of decision makers across the world right now as they're pretty much damned if they do and damned if they don't. The health issues are of course headline and so they should be, but the Economic fallout will be felt by generations for decades to come and I'm sure there'll be lots of recriminations in the future but all in all it's just a shocking situation and one which there's really no right or wrong answer as there will be serious repercussions however things are handled. As I say, I'm personally quite impressed with how Scotland in general has handled this but we can certainly still learn from the Asian countries who seem to be much more aware and better prepared to deal with these situations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 The tory point (cuunnt) in Scotland that Canary Islands free of covid19 and 1000+ miles from mainland Spain was reasonable point at the time imo.Especially as there were arguments about being able to police local issues locally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 I see an outbreak now in Carlisle linked to 3 pubs. Anyone who was in them between certain dates is being advised to get a test booked. Might well affect people this side of the border. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 To be clear they weren’t intentionally moving infected people into care homes. They moved people who showed no symptoms, the issue is that these people were not tested so could have carried the virusNot intentionally but they knew moving them without tests was dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 445 cases in the UK. The 110 new deaths figure seems nonsense again tbh. 0 in Scotland, Wales & N.I 15 in English hospitals, but 95 elsewhere in England? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: 445 cases in the UK. The 110 new deaths figure seems nonsense again tbh. 0 in Scotland, Wales & N.I 15 in English hospitals, but 95 elsewhere in England? So did these people not die then? Or are the hospital figures just low and out of date? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, GiGi said: So did these people not die then? Or are the hospital figures just low and out of date? The hospital figures are updated every day so they will be accurate enough. Its the PHE figure that is the one that includes a new death of anyone who ever tested positive, no matter how long ago. I find it highly improbable than more than 6 out of 7 Covid deaths in England occur outside of a hospital. These people have tested positive for Coronavirus at some point and have now died, but the cause of death is not necessarily / probably not from Covid for a large chunk of those. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 1 minute ago, GiGi said: So did these people not die then? Or are the hospital figures just low and out of date? 95 died in England either at home, in a care home, or anywhere else that isn't hospital. These deaths generate a much longer reporting lag than those in hospital (those in hospital will have already been tested prior to their death, so their death can be reported promptly to the relevant authorities). Those outside hospital are much less likely to have confirmed covid-19 positive status at the time of death therefore they're not reported in the official figures until their death certificate is officially registered, which even in normal circumstances may be several days after the person died and this could be lengthened further by slowdowns in registration caused by the virus, further delays to the process of reporting the figures to the authorities, and any posthumous covid-19 testing to confirm the patient's status. If the figures were to be believed, some 86% of the 110 deaths reported today happened outside hospital. That is quite blatantly false given that covid-19 takes several days if not weeks to kill an infected person and you would expect the vast majority to be in hospital by the time of death. What's really happened is that the vast majority of the 95 reported non-hospital deaths happened some time ago and the reporting is just catching up now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 The only way we can test this is to put a personal ad in offering £500 to any person who has recovered from Covid in England to come to a warehouse for an experiment. Once we get 500 people, we kill them all by non-Covid means and tell the police where they are, leaving all the details of each person on their body. Thus all will be registered that day and we'll be able to see the affect of our experiment on the announced figures. It's the only way to be sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, ICTChris said: The only way we can test this is to put a personal ad in offering £500 to any person who has recovered from Covid in England to come to a warehouse for an experiment. Once we get 500 people, we kill them all by non-Covid means and tell the police where they are, leaving all the details of each person on their body. Thus all will be registered that day and we'll be able to see the affect of our experiment on the announced figures. It's the only way to be sure. Completely unnecessary. The government know it's broken which is why they have stopped announcing the daily figure in the usual place and asked for an urgent review. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 Completely unnecessary. The government know it's broken which is why they have stopped announcing the daily figure in the usual place and asked for an urgent review.Aye but murdering 500 folk sounds more fun though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiGi Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: Aye but murdering 500 folk sounds more fun though Well within your modus operandi too, Dom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 75k tests carried out across the UK for the 445 cases. Interesting that there always seems to be a notable uptick in tests on a Friday - assume there's a reporting reason for. This? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Completely unnecessary. The government know it's broken which is why they have stopped announcing the daily figure in the usual place and asked for an urgent review. Not entirely convinced it was a serious suggestion 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: 53 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: Completely unnecessary. The government know it's broken which is why they have stopped announcing the daily figure in the usual place and asked for an urgent review. Aye but murdering 500 folk sounds more fun though I'm a glass half empty kind of guy. It's a failing I must acknowledge, so 500 wouldn't be enough. Edited July 21, 2020 by Sergeant Wilson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, madwullie said: Not entirely convinced it was a serious suggestion i know, but I assumed the underlying message of needing to test the theory remained 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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