Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Being required by law  to wear a mask is quite clearly a restriction. I don't see how that can be up for debate. 
If people want to keep wearing them then they should be free to do so. Once people vulnerable groups are vaccinated, I don't see the need for continuing to mandate them. 

The only restriction I can see existing in the long run is proof that you've had the vaccine for international travel.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

We're venturing into the "acceptable risk" chat here, but, unfortunately for your BiL's pal, for the country as a whole, relatively rare examples of younger people developing post viral fatigue fall into that category.
There is risk in all aspects of life. And we will reach a point where the risk from Covid-19 is deemed acceptable. It won't be zero.

You still haven't answered the question - is this still over as a public health crisis?

[welshbairn]

I don't think it would be a bad idea if we carry on the East Asian habit of wearing a face covering if we have cold symptoms. It's just a minimum bit of consideration, especially if you're on a packed bus or something. 

[8MileBU]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Hearing of delays in vaccine administration in a hospital in Glasgow today for over 3hrs because no one booked any vaccinators. But this is all going well and we shouldnt be angry. 

This is as much of a problem as Covid.  Incompetence is almost as rife as the virus itself.

[GordonS]

52 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

An 80% increase in annual mortality is fantasyland stuff. Behave.

Which bit of observed reality do you object to? I don't know what the 80% is to which you refer, but the figure I gave is from ONS as reported here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55411323

When I said those who scoffed and were wrong are still scoffing... does that includes you?

[GordonS]

50 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Chris Whitty stated today around 8000 in a good year and 20000 in a bad year die of flu.

he then went on to say something along the lines of Covid will turn out to be similar and acceptable risk (i.e. collateral damage) will be arrived at.

 While I think it’s truthful and needs saying his glib manner and the half smile he has while talking about this stuff makes me think he’s a c**t.

I didn't hear his comments but I read the reports of it, and it doesn't say anything like that. Can you quote that bit?

[Left Back]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I didn't hear his comments but I read the reports of it, and it doesn't say anything like that. Can you quote that bit?

I don’t have the words verbatim and this doesn’t quote everything. But he did talk about acceptable risk and people dying being a thing that happens.

 

I don’t disagree with what he said, it’s the way he says is.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-chris-whitty-winter-vaccine-b1782810.html

[Todd_is_God]

35 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Which bit of observed reality do you object to? I don't know what the 80% is to which you refer, but the figure I gave is from ONS as reported here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55411323

When I said those who scoffed and were wrong are still scoffing... does that includes you?

The 80% was in reference to the fact that 600k people die every year in the UK, and 500k on top of that would represent an increase of (just over) 80%. Nonsense.

The 500k figure was calculated by a professor with a track record of wild overestimates, using dated, sloppy code, which produced a result which couldn't be replicated by anyone else. He also made a number of assumptions for the likes of CFR and population susceptibility that we now know to be false.

If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt and (arguably correctly) say he could not have known this at the time then that's fine, but the model used was so flawed that you cannot use his 500,000 figure as a yardstick for measuring the effectiveness of the measures we took.

Did they reduce the pressure on the NHS during the Spring, Summer and Autumn? Perhaps.

Did they save any lives? I wouldn't be surprised if, when all is said and done, it's found that while they may have helped delay a large number of deaths by a few months, they didn't actually save (m)any.

The link you provides places excess deaths for the year at around 13.3% if we assume all of the covid deaths within 28 days of a positive result would not have otherwise occured (unlikely) then excess under that measure were around 11%

Given the huge majority of these deaths were in elderly people, the vaccine will prevent most of those happening again, massively reducing that number in 2021 and beyond.

What we cannot do going forward is shovel the same amount of resources again at maybe preventing ~10,000 deaths following the rollout of the vaccine (1.6% excess) because, as Whitty says, people die. That, to me, is an acceptable level of risk for a country of 66m, and it is important that he has used those words, as it indicates that he does not advocate a futile "zero covid" approach.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

The Tories have decided they can't be arsed with vaccines on Sundays.

[Left Back]

12 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The 80% was in reference to the fact that 600k people die every year in the UK, and 500k on top of that would represent an increase of (just over) 80%. Nonsense.

The 500k figure was calculated by a professor with a track record of wild overestimates, using dated, sloppy code, which produced a result which couldn't be replicated by anyone else. He also made a number of assumptions for the likes of CFR and population susceptibility that we now know to be false.

If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt and (arguably correctly) say he could not have known this at the time then that's fine, but the model used was so flawed that you cannot use his 500,000 figure as a yardstick for measuring the effectiveness of the measures we took.

Did they reduce the pressure on the NHS during the Spring, Summer and Autumn? Perhaps.

Did they save any lives? I wouldn't be surprised if, when all is said and done, it's found that while they may have helped delay a large number of deaths by a few months, they didn't actually save (m)any.

The link you provides places excess deaths for the year at around 13.3% if we assume all of the covid deaths within 28 days of a positive result would not have otherwise occured (unlikely) then excess deaths due to covid were around 11%

Given the huge majority of these deaths were in elderly people, the vaccine will prevent most of those happening again.

What we cannot do going forward is shovel the same amount of resources again at maybe preventing ~10,000 deaths following the rollout of the vaccine (1.6% excess) because, as Whitty says, people die. That, to me, is an acceptable level of risk for a country of 66m, and it is important that he has used those words, as it indicates that he does not advocate a futile "zero covid" approach.

Whitty also did say that zero Covid wasn’t going to happen.

I wish there was a transcript of what he said today.  It seemed to be the most truthful “scientific’ guidance we’ve had so far.  Vallance said pretty much hee-haw.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Whitty also did say that zero Covid wasn’t going to happen.

I wish there was a transcript of what he said today.  It seemed to be the most truthful “scientific’ guidance we’ve had so far.  Vallance said pretty much hee-haw.

He said some pretty truth stuff back in March before the Government changed approach.

It's as if now the vaccines are here and there will be an end point reasonably soon, he is free again to talk honestly

[Left Back]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

He said some pretty truth stuff back in March before the Government changed approach.

It's as if now the vaccines are here and there will be an end point reasonably soon, he is free again to talk honestly

Won’t fully break rank before his knighthood is announced.  Then Sir Chris’ memoirs to supplement his retirement will be a best-seller

[Todd_is_God]

16 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Won’t fully break rank before his knighthood is announced.  Then Sir Chris’ memoirs to supplement his retirement will be a best-seller

Haha.

Either that or his comments at the briefings don't really reflect his advice behind closed doors, and his appearances are little more than to deliver the message the government want the public to hear and buy in to, from someone that isn't BJ or MH.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Nothing like a bit of overreaction over wearing a mask and sitting at home for a weeks -

 

[RH33]

I mid read that as this is a tranny and thought I’d missed Kier becoming Kim.

[philpy]

7 hours ago, virginton said:

Yep, it's definitely those pesky young people who are responsible for a person's suicide here.

What an absolute walloper.

Takes one to know one.

At which point did I suggest that?? The point I'm trying to make is there are young people going out to house parties every weekend and just not giving a f**k. This poor lad has stuck by the rules and made sacrifices  to try and make a future for himself. It's just very sad that depression and loneliness took its toll.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Having a stroke? Wait 10 hours for an ambulance.

Horrible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-ambulance-london-delays-deaths-b1782473.html

[mizfit]

That terrifies me.

[SlipperyP]

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2046367/qualified-hope

2 years to end the epidemic in Thailand  & 70% vaccination for the population until tourist are full allowed to return.

Won't be seeing my sisters for a while now.

Also only Thais to receive the vaccine, even though I probably pay more tax towards the health dept than most in my village  country...

Have a great day everyone.

[Billy Jean King]

Hearing of delays in vaccine administration in a hospital in Glasgow today for over 3hrs because no one booked any vaccinators. But this is all going well and we shouldnt be angry. 

If something like that IS really happening you can 100% guarantee the journos will be all over it like a rash at the daily briefing. There will be tons of rumours doing the rounds given we are in the facebook era but it's box office headline wise for the media right now so I'd be very surprised if any incident like that that actually does occur doesn't see the light of day.

That said medical procedures get cancelled day in day out due to staff shortage. Add in the pandemic causing increased sickness and isolation it would be understandable if vaccinations were affected like everything else. Difference at the moment is supply is slack enough for it to make no overall difference but that will hopefully change in coming weeks and we have been assured staffing will be ramped up accordingly.

ETA the Evening Times had a front page splash complaining about nurses having to queue "in the freezing cold" for their vaccine. The accompanying picture showed about a dozen folk waiting.

WT actual F surely lines of people getting vaccinated is a good thing. We need to get the idea that this should be like a normal gp 10 min spaced appointment process in the bin asap.

We need to see more queues and if it's nhs staff complaining about standing in line for a few minutes for their jab to the press quite frankly f**k them !