Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[madwullie]

2 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Since when was anything in life '100% certain'? Not least medicine or the fact that 'hypothetically', there could be another pandemic just around the corner.

If you're expecting our govt to lift restrictions based on data from another country that aren't even doing the same things as us, you think they're a million miles more cavalier than they actually are. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by madwullie

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, madwullie said:

If you're expecting our govt to lift restrictions based on data from another country that aren't even doing the same things as us, you think they're a million miles more cavalier than they actually are. 

The SG were quite happy to use examples from abroad when they wanted to keep restrictions in place.

When we get into summer, for example, they absolutely should not be allowed to ignore what is happening elsewhere.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

27 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Sorry to interrupt your smugfest but the holiday was booked in December 2019 before anyone had heard of covid as we are going away for my old dear’s 60th and it took a bit of planning. If they are cancelling holidays then so be it, but its getting to the point where they need to actually commit, is the travel ban going to unreasonably go for the rest of 2021 or is it not? Its unfair to people in similar situations and indeed those who rely on the travel and tourism sector for their employment.  
Clownshoes and Nicola can wag the finger and ‘advise against booking’ but until they act like a government and actually commit to a position fully then they look weak and out of control. Its unfair to make half hearted industry destroying statements but they should own their decisions and the financial repercussions. 

I would suggest don't book a summer foreign holiday means they won't be happening. I too have 3 booking made long ago but I pretty much have written the July one off (October and December other 2). I'm not happy about it either but I don't see as it stands how anyone can be even slightly confident of a foreign holiday before the Autumn with the current messaging. Yes it's shit but it seems pretty clear to me.

Right, so are they going to confirm this to allow the industry to get access to financial support and for customers to get their money back etc? Its entirely reasonable to want answers to this question. Im not confident about a foreign holiday due to the messaging, if it has to be cancelled then so be it, but the uncertainty over whats going to happen is shite. They can’t message saying its not to happen reducing the cash flow of the industry then suddenly allow it to happen because thats entirely irresponsible and would lead to massive job losses in a vulnerable sector with significant repurcussions across the world. So if they actually gave fair warning ‘no foreign travel until ...’ then people know exactly where they stand, industry can lobby for support, tentatively plan for ... and people can either rebook or get money back. The shite thing about the SG’s handling of this is the fact they are happy to stand and lecture about the likes of travel and football etc speaking to everyone like a naughty child, but wont actually pull the trigger and say officially that its not happening. 

[Billy Jean King]

If you're expecting our govt to lift restrictions based on data from another country that aren't even doing the same things as us, you think they're a million miles more cavalier than they actually are. 

If we did follow their example we wouldn't be relaxing measures until we had 50% of the entire population vaccinated. That's the equivalent of about 33m in the UK. We are a good 2 months from that position.

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, madwullie said:

If you're expecting our govt to lift restrictions based on data from another country that aren't even doing the same things as us, you think they're a million miles more competent than they actually are. 

FTFY. 

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

17 minutes ago, madwullie said:

If you're expecting our govt to lift restrictions based on data from another country that aren't even doing the same things as us, you think they're a million miles more cavalier than they actually are. 

If we did follow their example we wouldn't be relaxing measures until we had 50% of the entire population vaccinated. That's the equivalent of about 33m in the UK. We are a good 2 months from that position.

Do you genuinely see the SG allowing bars, restaurants and theatres to be operating at 75% capacity by the end of May?

We all know what the roadmap is going to look like, and we all know that emphasis will continue to be placed on using cherry picked examples from a restaurant in Skopje to justify a pedestrian approach regardless of the overall picture.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[Elixir]

8 minutes ago, madwullie said:

If you're expecting our govt to lift restrictions based on data from another country that aren't even doing the same things as us, you think they're a million miles more cavalier than they actually are. 

As has just been said, the Scottish Government like using international examples when it suits them. I understand the need for travel restrictions currently, but come the summer when cases will naturally plummet, our vaccination program will be nearing completion, and it will by then be much further on in Europe, restrictions will be wholly disproportionate to any cost-benefit analysis or so-called precautionary principle.

[Billy Jean King]

Right, so are they going to confirm this to allow the industry to get access to financial support and for customers to get their money back etc? Its entirely reasonable to want answers to this question. Im not confident about a foreign holiday due to the messaging, if it has to be cancelled then so be it, but the uncertainty over whats going to happen is shite. They can’t message saying its not to happen reducing the cash flow of the industry then suddenly allow it to happen because thats entirely irresponsible and would lead to massive job losses in a vulnerable sector with significant repurcussions across the world. So if they actually gave fair warning ‘no foreign travel until ...’ then people know exactly where they stand, industry can lobby for support, tentatively plan for ... and people can either rebook or get money back. The shite thing about the SG’s handling of this is the fact they are happy to stand and lecture about the likes of travel and football etc speaking to everyone like a naughty child, but wont actually pull the trigger and say officially that its not happening. 

I've had my money back no problem for cancelled holidays (Jet2 and easyjet). Rolling cancellation programs are ongoing and have been since last summer. It doesn't need an actual ban from govt for holiday firms to refund anyone. This stance isn't peculiar to the SG it's pretty much the stance Europe wide. UK citizens are still banned from entering the EU for holidays as it currently stands and that is nothing to do with the UK or Scottish governments. A lot if things need to change within a multi agency chain for holidays to restart. When they do I fully expect it will include compulsory testing plus mitigation measures and those alone will put a lot of folk off. Travel insurance will be critical as measures might (probably wont) stop tour operators flying once permitted but will mean a lot of folk with bookings wont want to go. It's a very complex sector and one that will be difficult to restart with any great certainty.

[Bairnardo]

If we did follow their example we wouldn't be relaxing measures until we had 50% of the entire population vaccinated. That's the equivalent of about 33m in the UK. We are a good 2 months from that position.

It's not so much about copying other countries for me, more about a constant, stubborn insistence on using lagging indicators, in some cases that lag current data by 4 to 6 weeks probably, when theres a growing body of data available from at home and abroad that says you can trust the efficacy of these vaccines to mean you dont actually need to wait X number of weeks just to be sure it wont result in the vaccinated population suddenly becoming a crisis level burden to the NHS.

Hope I have worded that to make sense. In a way, its talking about gambling, but let's face it, no bookie would even give you odds on the ongoing success of a vaccine that has already wildly exceeded reasonable hope in test and real life conditions.

We need to trust it, not saying RIGHT NOW!!! but we need to start trusting it, rather than burning weeks and months on "let just wait a wee bit longer to be sure".

[Billy Jean King]

Do you genuinely see the SG allowing bars, restaurants and theatres to be operating at 75% capacity by the end of May?
We all know what the roadmap is going to look like, and we all know that emphasis will continue to be on using cherry picked examples from a restaurant in Skopje to justify a pedestrian approach regardless of the overall picture.

Bars and restaurants maybe. Probably won't be announced this week but the landscape is going to change hugely as we head into spring with vaccine effect becoming more pronounced.

[Billy Jean King]

It's not so much about copying other countries for me, more about a constant, stubborn insistence on using lagging indicators, in some cases that lag current data by 4 to 6 weeks probably, when theres a growing body of data available from at home and abroad that says you can trust the efficacy of these vaccines to mean you dont actually need to wait X number of weeks just to be sure it wont result in the vaccinated population suddenly becoming a crisis level burden to the NHS.

Hope I have worded that to make sense. In a way, its talking about gambling, but let's face it, no bookie would even give you odds on the ongoing success of a vaccine that has already wildly exceeded reasonable hope in test and real life conditions.

We need to trust it, not saying RIGHT NOW!!! but we need to start trusting it, rather than burning weeks and months on "let just wait a wee bit longer to be sure".

Agree 100% again I wasn't advocating that stance just pointing out where we are in relation to Israel given they are the current poster boys.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

UK citizens are still banned from entering the EU for holidays as it currently stands and that is nothing to do with the UK or Scottish governments.

It's got everything to do with the UK & Scottish Government, though.

Did they expect foreign governments to ignore their BS "mOaR iNfEcTiOuS & mAyBe mOaR dEaDlY KeNt VaRiAnt" cries?

The "mutation zone" label will hang around longer than case numbers are a concern, and that is entirely down to the actions of the UK Gov.

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

10 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Do you genuinely see the SG allowing bars, restaurants and theatres to be operating at 75% capacity by the end of May?
We all know what the roadmap is going to look like, and we all know that emphasis will continue to be on using cherry picked examples from a restaurant in Skopje to justify a pedestrian approach regardless of the overall picture.

Bars and restaurants maybe. Probably won't be announced this week but the landscape is going to change hugely as we head into spring with vaccine effect becoming more pronounced.

I will be pleasantly surprised if bars and restaurants in Scotland will be able to operate at 75% capacity in May.

I expect Beer Gardens only, a maximum of 4 people from 2 households, and 2 hour pre-booked slots at best.

[Elixir]

Quote

Posted at 11:1211:12

'There will be weeks between lockdown easing steps' - Hancock

Coronavirus restrictions will be eased with "weeks between the steps", Matt Hancock has said.

The health secretary told Times Radio it takes a few weeks for the impact of lifting measures to be seen.

He says: "Hence there will be weeks between the steps so that we can watch carefully."

Hancock also says social distancing measures and the wearing of face coverings are likely to remain for a while.

"I want to see it more about personal responsibility over time as we have vaccinated more and more of the population," he says.

That last sentence is what will happen anyway, as the nation collectively fires the nonsense in the bin post-vaccination. 

[madwullie]

31 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The SG were quite happy to use examples from abroad when they wanted to keep restrictions in place.

When we get into summer, for example, they absolutely should not be allowed to ignore what is happening elsewhere.

Agree with the first part, but lifting restrictions is different. It would be pretty irresponsible to base that decision on other countries imo anyway. And whether imo or not, I don't think there's (m)any(?) govts who would make that decision based on what's happening elsewhere. 

[Elixir]

Astronomically good data. Similar to a comment I read on Twitter, but the mRNA vaccines are starting to look like miracle medicine. This should really be seen as one of the greatest medical advancements ever, because it is, rather than the utter babbling about 'nEw VaRiAnTz AnD sTiLl UnSuRe AbOuT tRaNsMiSsIoN'.

[Bairnardo]

Astronomically good data. Similar to a comment I read on Twitter, but the mRNA vaccines are starting to look like miracle medicine. This should really be seen as one of the greatest medical advancements ever, because it is, rather than the utter babbling about 'nEw VaRiAnTz AnD sTiLl UnSuRe AbOuT tRaNsMiSsIoN'.

Heres yer problem though, right here.....

[8MileBU]

2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

 

[Todd_is_God]

16 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Agree with the first part, but lifting restrictions is different. It would be pretty irresponsible to base that decision on other countries imo anyway. And whether imo or not, I don't think there's (m)any(?) govts who would make that decision based on what's happening elsewhere. 

You make a fair point. Maybe not base them on what's happening elsewhere, but certainly not put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, and pretend they "just don't know"

[ICTChris]

50 minutes ago, 101 said:

Printing money to give to you pals seems like a cracking idea.

@Adam