Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

2 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

Not in Scotland 

Was just reading this

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2018/03/13/rob-hendry-gross-negligence-manslaughter-does-not-exist-in-scotland-is-it-time-to-move-english-law-towards-the-scottish-position/

Quote

Scotland has its own distinct legal and judicial system and the offence of GNM (gross negligence manslaughter) does not exist. The closest equivalent offence in Scotland is that of culpable homicide—an offence often thought of as the little brother to the offence of murder.  

Culpable homicide requires there to have been a death (a homicide) where someone is to blame (culpable).  It requires the causing of someone’s death by an unlawful act, but in situations where the actions do not meet the test for murder.  

For the prosecution to prove a charge of culpable homicide they would—in stark contrast to the GNM offence in England and Wales—need to establish that the accused committed an unlawful act; that the unlawful act was intentional, reckless, or grossly careless; and that the death was a direct result of the unlawful act.

A further salient point from the approach in Scotland is that the prosecution of a healthcare professional for culpable homicide must be deemed as serving public interest. Each prosecution is considered by the procurator fiscal and authorised by the Lord Advocate before it can proceed. In arriving at a decision they have to balance the interests of justice with supporting a patient safety culture.

 

[jimmy boo]

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

Maybe being on here 24/7 for months on end isn't good for some people.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

Not in Scotland - there has never been a doctor (or anyone else) charged with manslaughter in Scotland, much less jailed.

I think the equivalent offence in Scotland is culpable homicide (which requires intent). I don’t think there have been any convictions under this.

I wasn’t taking a Scotland centric viewpoint on this or even particularly wanting to discuss doctors.  More a general point that being negligent and costing lives should lead to the jail, regardless of where you are.

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, jimmy boo said:

52 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

Maybe being on here 24/7 for months on end isn't good for some people.

Good point. I'd thought it might be the deaths, endless restrictions, being unable to see friends or family and lots of people having to worry about their jobs, but it's The Pie and Bovril Football Forum that's the real bad point.

[Wee Bully]

2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

I think the equivalent offence in Scotland is culpable homicide (which requires intent). I don’t think there have been any convictions under this.

I wasn’t taking a Scotland centric viewpoint on this or even particularly wanting to discuss doctors.  More a general point that being negligent and costing lives should lead to the jail, regardless of where you are.

I get that.  It’s one of my pet peeves though - people in Scotland (or at least in this case posting on a Scottish forum) using English legal terminology should get fired straight into the sea.  

I’m fighting against this creeping cultural imperialism.

[Billy Jean King]

Utterly grim.....

Another point from the government's 'early thinking' document... Some coronavirus measures might still be needed after all adults have had a jab
The vaccine programme does not provide universal protection and it is still not known how much impact vaccines have on transmission, the government says.
Some people will not take up the offer of a vaccine and even after two doses it will not be 100% effective.
As a result, some measures may still be needed for some time after all adults have been offered a vaccine.

[Bairnardo]

10 minutes ago, jimmy boo said:

58 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

Maybe being on here 24/7 for months on end isn't good for some people.

Eh....

 

f**k off m8

[Thereisalight..]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

Bozo..."we just don't know what umbrella of protection the vaccines provide".
WTF is going on here ???

He also just said he does LFT before every visit out. Why if he has already had the virus AND had his vaccination !!!
 

He really has lost the plot and the sad thing is there is nobody with enough backbone to challenge him.

Ive not had the vaccine yet as I'm a semi young thing, but if I had I'd genuinely be wondering what the fcking point was. Constant bleatings about the level of protection it gives and of course "variants!!!". We all know of course this is bullshit and a precursor to bringing in domestic vaccine passports and lining scum pockets even more 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Thereisalight..

[101]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

Sad thing is most of the scrutiny comes from the press who speak to the nutters who lap this crap up. Need the press to take a big stand on getting things back to a normal social life.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Utterly grim.....

Another point from the government's 'early thinking' document... Some coronavirus measures might still be needed after all adults have had a jab
The vaccine programme does not provide universal protection and it is still not known how much impact vaccines have on transmission, the government says.
Some people will not take up the offer of a vaccine and even after two doses it will not be 100% effective.
As a result, some measures may still be needed for some time after all adults have been offered a vaccine.

 

I’ve no issue with coronavirus measures remaining post vaccination as long as they are commensurate with and normal to a pre-covid world.  
 

Proof of vaccination to enter a country being the obvious example.  It’s normal to have this for certain diseases in certain countries.  

I had no idea until today that surgeons are required to have certain vaccines but if this is deemed a risk by the medical profession then it seems sensible to me that these requirements be extended to include coronavirus.  This is a normal event that may need to include an additional measure for coronavirus.

the idea that we’re going to alter normal life in case of coronavirus is deplorable though as the reasons to do this don’t seem to stack up.

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Utterly grim.....

Another point from the government's 'early thinking' document... Some coronavirus measures might still be needed after all adults have had a jab
The vaccine programme does not provide universal protection and it is still not known how much impact vaccines have on transmission, the government says.
Some people will not take up the offer of a vaccine and even after two doses it will not be 100% effective.
As a result, some measures may still be needed for some time after all adults have been offered a vaccine.

 

They should maybe try reducing the number that is likely to be by not telling everyone (particularly young, healthy people) at every opportunity that getting vaccinated will make no difference to what they can and can't do.

[Honest Saints Fan]

 

[Elixir]

1 hour ago, Spider Rico said:

“In the long term, social distancing means taking time off work when you feel unwell, it also means better hand hygiene and washing our hands for longer, he states.”

More like it from Patrick Vallance. If he can just reign in the “long term” part 

As usual, the inconsistent and ambiguous messaging is a tragedy.

[MuckleMoo]

More positive news coming out of Israel

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hope-for-herd-immunity-vaccines-shown-to-protect-israelis-who-dont-get-them/

[Left Back]

9 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said:

 

^^^ doesn’t have a mate with a factory that manufactures LFT’s.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

22 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said:

 

Aren't LFTs shite and full of false results?

They tried to fob them off on English school kids and there was a big backlash by parents saying "f**k no" because a positive test meant self isolation for 10 days even if there was a subsequent negative from a more reliable test.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Jim McLean's Ghost

[Todd_is_God]

36 minutes ago, Honest Saints Fan said:

 

Probably planning to use the allocated funds to subsidise longer restrictions instead.

[Honest_Man#1]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

This is essentially advocating a step towards fascism. Being bad at your job should not be punishable by imprisonment, no matter what your job is. The predictions are not what affect the liberty of people - the liberty of people is being affected by the people who make the decisions - the fact that they might act on bad information (or at least a failure to understand the nuances of the information) is their fault for picking the wrong people to listen to. It sort of reminds me (in the opposite direction) of the Italian government trying to prosecute seismologists who failed to predict the fatal earthquake in L'Aquila in 2009.

The only possible effect of this is that scientists (and all sorts of other experts) refuse to work with the government again, and you get a bunch of yes men telling people in power exactly what they want to hear with no checks or balances.

I don’t agree with Todd’s stance on this, but the line in bold is not correct in reality, and neither should it be. If I do my job very badly, regardless of doing it with malice, I could end up accidentally killing a large number of people. If that happens I will be prosecuted for it, and I should be.

[8MileBU]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Going to be honest here. I am starting to struggle with all this shit.

Honestly, speaking to people who are peddling the need for passports, spouting off about variants and wanting to be kept safe, reading these utterly pointless, serves no good purpose articles and headlines, I'm struggling to keep a lid on my anger with it all.

Its still at the point where criticism of the response is met with "covid denier" chat, but the clear reality of it is we are so fucking far from "protect the NHS" its unrecognisable.

I don't know what we are doing here anymore, but I am starting to worry that normal life isn't coming back.

You’re not alone here. I’ve been at that point like you’re  describing here a few times and probably will be again before this is all over. I’m now at the “past giving a f**k” stage as are many people I know. Normal life will come back whether they say it’s allowed to or not.

Edited April 5, 2021 by 8MileBU

[Elixir]

35 minutes ago, MuckleMoo said:

More positive news coming out of Israel

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hope-for-herd-immunity-vaccines-shown-to-protect-israelis-who-dont-get-them/

BuT cHiLe!!!11

Seriously, though - I wonder what will happen longer term if it turns out the mRNA vaccines are indeed 'superior' to other more traditional vaccines. Will we be in a position where we 'only' want to use them, as the rush to get any vaccine into arms ends? Particularly if they hammer transmission even more.