Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[D Angelo Barksdale]

My work have just cancelled our Xmas night out due to the 'advice' on Friday.

[williemillersmoustache]

11 minutes ago, Jan Vojáček said:

A split of people admitted because of Covid, and people admitted who have Covid would be very helpful. I'd imagine that's something we'd all be able to agree on. It would provide a far greater indication of the impact of Omicron (and the efficacy of vaccines).

I think that's often difficult to achieve particularly with co-morbidity but sure.

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I think that's often difficult to achieve particularly with co-morbidity but sure.

It's not at all. Because they did it.

[pozbaird]

IF the Scottish Government introduce / re-introduce restrictions and rules, are they doing it because they’re telling us numbers are about to go stratospheric and, basically, the NHS is going to be swamped? At the same time, they want as many folk as possible to get vaccinated and boostered? We have millions and millions of us who have done just that. Jabbed to the eyeballs. They must be admitting then that the vaccines don’t work even just to an extent that will stop zillions of us swamping the NHS, so why in the name of anything would that encourage folk to ‘roll up their sleeves for Scotland’. Surely to fcuk the vaccines work enough to stop folk pouring into hospitals and overwhelming the NHS? They can achieve that, can’t they? What’s the point any more? 

Vaccines were the way out, we have them, they want us to keep getting jabbed, but they might need to re-impose restrictions on us because the NHS could be over-run with untold numbers of seriously ill people? Just WTF is going on? What’s in the vaccine vials? Irn Bru?

Edited December 12, 2021 by pozbaird

[ddfg]

9 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

IF the Scottish Government introduce / re-introduce restrictions and rules, are they doing it because they’re telling us numbers are about to go stratospheric and, basically, the NHS is going to be swamped? At the same time, they want as many folk as possible to get vaccinated and boostered? We have millions and millions of us who have done just that. Jabbed to the eyeballs. They must be admitting then that the vaccines don’t work to an extent that will stop zillions of us swamping the NHS, so why in the name of anything would that encourage folk to ‘roll up their sleeves for Scotland’.

Just WTF is going on any more?

Is it not the job of government to protect the NHS and provide a fit for purpose service that we already pay for via the highest tax rates in the UK? Failure on their part should not result in unnecessary restictions on the population. 

If the NHS is not fit for purpose may we need another of the First Minister' famous adult conversations about how best to fund and provide health services in Scotland. 

At this stage in the pandemic shutting bars, restaurants and limiting the scope for people to meet should be a million miles away from Cabinet considerations. 

 

 

[Billy Jean King]

IF the Scottish Government introduce / re-introduce restrictions and rules, are they doing it because they’re telling us numbers are about to go stratospheric and, basically, the NHS is going to be swamped? At the same time, they want as many folk as possible to get vaccinated and boostered? We have millions and millions of us who have done just that. Jabbed to the eyeballs. They must be admitting then that the vaccines don’t work even just to an extent that will stop zillions of us swamping the NHS, so why in the name of anything would that encourage folk to ‘roll up their sleeves for Scotland’. Surely to fcuk the vaccines work enough to stop folk pouring into hospitals and overwhelming the NHS? They can achieve that, can’t they? What’s the point any more?
Just WTF is going on?

Exactly, they either work or they don't and clearly the "experts" and politicians no longer trust it to do the job. The exectiveness seems to be more and more diluted. I seem to remember AZ being quoted in the 80-90% bracket as protection after 2 doses and now today it's being quoted as 25% against Omicron. I simply don't buy that level of vaccine breakthrough and it seems to me that the effectiveness of AZ in particular has been vastly overstated.

[Abdul_Latif]

12 minutes ago, ddfg said:

If the NHS is not fit for purpose may we need another of the First Minister' famous adult conversations about how best to fund and provide health services in Scotland. 

Exactly this.

Pre vaccine they got by on most folks willingness to do what was necessary, to protect vulnerable and older populations.

As the threat of death is mostly gone and it’s now a capacity issue, the public are not nearly as sympathetic.

Essentially the governments have admitted what many have know all along. The NHS is fucked.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by Abdul_Latif

[Todd_is_God]

I think they deliberately flip flop between "protection against severe disease" and "protection from infection" depending on what they want to do.

Ease restrictions? Point out that they do the job they were designed to do and reduce the severity of infection.

Want to tighten them? Point out they don't stop people catching it.

They treat the public like idiots, and the public lap it up because they have been sufficiently scared of covid to equate a case to needing ICU care rather than to feeling shite for a few days.

[pozbaird]

6 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

22 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

IF the Scottish Government introduce / re-introduce restrictions and rules, are they doing it because they’re telling us numbers are about to go stratospheric and, basically, the NHS is going to be swamped? At the same time, they want as many folk as possible to get vaccinated and boostered? We have millions and millions of us who have done just that. Jabbed to the eyeballs. They must be admitting then that the vaccines don’t work even just to an extent that will stop zillions of us swamping the NHS, so why in the name of anything would that encourage folk to ‘roll up their sleeves for Scotland’. Surely to fcuk the vaccines work enough to stop folk pouring into hospitals and overwhelming the NHS? They can achieve that, can’t they? What’s the point any more?
Just WTF is going on?

Exactly, they either work or they don't and clearly the "experts" and politicians no longer trust it to do the job. The exectiveness seems to be more and more diluted. I seem to remember AZ being quoted in the 80-90% bracket as protection after 2 doses and now today it's being quoted as 25% against Omicron. I simply don't buy that level of vaccine breakthrough and it seems to me that the effectiveness of AZ in particular has been vastly overstated.

I thought if you had double AZ, they gave you a different booster (I got Pfizer), and the mix of vaccines was effective. Effective to a point where it can avoid you becoming so ill that you, and thousands like you, see the NHS unable to cope.

Let’s strip it back to that, beacuse that’s what it was about. Not about 100% protection, not about trying to w**k ourselves into a New Zealand style orgasm of trying to get to zero Covid cases.

If the vaccines we have all been taking cannot even offer enough of a result to avoid an NHS collapse, then just WTF is going on?

[Donathan]

I think this comment strikes the right tone.

 

 

If the SG were to come out and say “The virus is spreading quickly, you might want to think about limiting your contacts for a week before Christmas but ultimately it’s up to you to determine what risk level you’re comfortable with”, I’d have no problem with that. In fact, I’d think that would be very sensible.

 

It’s when they start threatening to close businesses and criminalising socialising that I have a major overreach issue. 

[Todd_is_God]

Yeah that's fair enough.

Personal responsibility will never catch on, though.

ETA the replies to that tweet are wild. "No one will comply " stuff to a tweet not telling anyone to do anything other than "do what you want"

Edited December 12, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[anotherchance]

12 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Yeah that's fair enough.

Personal responsibility will never catch on, though.

ETA the replies to that tweet are wild. "No one will comply " stuff to a tweet not telling anyone to do anything other than "do what you want"

It’s exactly the tone Public Health Scotland should have gone for.

Instead we now have a populace littered with gormless halfwits who rely on Sturgeon and the hapless dentist to spell out word for word what they can and can’t do.

Just encourage common sense and personal responsibility while they get on with ramping up the boosters, instead of Hollywood disaster movie terminology and veiled threats of the naughty step.

[Bairnardo]

This has been discussed plenty on here, but speaking in a wider context, the most (well secind behind the sanctimony and threats) disheartening thing about all of this is a conplete lack of very focused, very loud "WELL FIX THE FUCKING HEALTH SERVICE THEN" from anyone.

Setting health service capacity to JUST enough to survive a heavy winter has been and continues to be a political choice. It is now a busted flush.

Yet even people who arent on the hook for doing something about that (public, media, self proclaimed experts like the frauds at iSage) are braying for ineffective, nonsense restrictions to peoples lives whilst the virus itself is busy making it clear that its not gping anywhere, and so health service capacity will simply have to accommodate it going forward.

Another thing thats noticable though, and I think folk on this thread are and have been guilty of this in the past.... Instead of whinging at folk who want to see less (or no more) restrictions about how terribly selfish they are, tell us what you want. If you want lockdown, say lockdown. If you want hospitality to close down, tell us so, and tell us of the gains using the available data from last time this happened.

[The Master]

38 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Yeah that's fair enough.

Personal responsibility will never catch on, though.

ETA the replies to that tweet are wild. "No one will comply " stuff to a tweet not telling anyone to do anything other than "do what you want"

Exactly. The point being made is that if you go out and socialise, there’s a risk of catching COVID and needing to isolate over Christmas. 

[jimmy boo]

Seriously, do you not have anything better to do with your time these days?

Ooft!!!

[Dawson Park Boy]

Right from the start of this business it was obvious that the NHS did not have enough capacity. What we need to do is create in every area Infectious Disease capacity in makeshift premises to cater for people with any new mutations which may come along. These facilities would be able to treat people with the new drugs which are coming constantly on stream. As Covid patients are away from the main hospital capacity normal elective surgery could carry on without worrying about the spread of Covid.

On the subject of Liberty it is most noticeable that the media outlets criticising the authoritarian turn of events are the right wing newspapers and GBNews. Great articles today by Steve Baker,Dan Hannan and Graham Brady.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Right from the start of this business it was obvious that the NHS did not have enough capacity. What we need to do is create in every area Infectious Disease capacity in makeshift premises to cater for people with any new mutations which may come along. These facilities would be able to treat people with the new drugs which are coming constantly on stream. As Covid patients are away from the main hospital capacity normal elective surgery could carry on without worrying about the spread of Covid.

On the subject of Liberty it is most noticeable that the media outlets criticising the authoritarian turn of events are the right wing newspapers and GBNews. Great articles today by Steve Baker,Dan Hannan and Graham Brady.

"makeshift premises" for people who could need ICU treatment?

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

"makeshift premises" for people who could need ICU treatment?

Absolutely.

Needs must.

[LongTimeLurker]

^^^you may not realise why posting that is a bit crass but best to remember that there are people on here who have actually been through that recently.

Despite all the fearmongering by politicians and the media the data from South Africa to date points to omicron being far milder than delta and quite possibly the beginning of the end for COVID-19 as a major public health issue at least for now if variants like omicron can continue to outcompete the more virulent ones on transmissibility. A bit like H1N1 influenza after 1918 though it will likely always be out there like a Sword of Damocles waiting for immunity levels to dwindle as a younger generation emerges with no exposure to it.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We had that.

It was the Louisa Jordan.

They had them in England too.

But they kept covid patients in the main hospitals anyway.

Probably because there was no-one to staff the Louisa Jordans.  Can buy as many beds and equipment as you want.  Can’t service them without trained staff.