Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[Skyline Drifter]

2 minutes ago, Dele said:

You're assuming. 

I've never once said that they'd be asked. 

You posted that the pot of cash should be shared between all four leagues. What exactly does that mean if not what I'm "assuming"? You weren't calling for the remaining pot to be split 42 ways?

[Arnold Layne]

13 minutes ago, dundeeunited83 said:

Dundee partick and Inverness all in a group chat with each other, know one else was in the group chat let’s be honest and Dundee have pulled the plug

 

what a laugh

What?

[Dee Man]

25 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

Dundee's position is that they want the money which comes with finishing third but don't want anything else to be decided according to the in-play positions of the other teams. Hypocritical self-serving bollocks dressed up as principle.

You have got literally no idea of what Dundee's position is, you have just pulled that out of your arse. If you think that virtually every club including especially your own didn't vote for self-serving purposes, you are naive in the extreme.

20 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

I bet you are. Why the f**k would the top flight share their cash with those lower down the pyramid?Typical Dundee. Grubbing b*****ds. 

Yeah why would they do that, the self-serving b*****ds...

8 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

Jesus wept. Just in case any fucking idiots were still peddling the "greater good" line here you go.

I'm not peddling any greater good lines. You are thick as f**k if you genuinely believe that in this current situation that any chairman, including yours, wouldn't be putting the interests of their own club first before anything else. Nelms is in exactly the position any businessman would want to be in. 

You're not taking this very well, but it's understandable. 

[dundeeunited83]

15 minutes ago, dundeeunited83 said:

Dundee partick and Inverness all in a group chat with each other, no one else was in the group chat let’s be honest and Dundee have pulled the plug

 

what a laugh

 

[rainbowrising]

20 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

Shame on me for taking this low quality bait, but just in case anyone reading genuinely believes that this is the case, the SPFL, to the surprise of no-one, have managed to make a monumental f**k up of a simple voting process and have left John Nelms in a unique negotiating position which he wasn't expecting, but one which he is going to take full advantage of. Understandably fans and board members of other clubs are nervous about him ultimately having that much power but that's not Dundee's problem.

Deal with it. 

Cant agree. I cannot see how we are suddenly The Man here with the power to wreak whatever we want. We'll be lucky to have one option on the table and if the answer is no are we really going to take down the huge number of clubs (some lets face it with a huge amount more leverage than we have) that voted in favour? 

[dundeeunited83]

2 minutes ago, Arnold Layne said:

What?

Been a long day

[parsforlife]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Can't comment on specific clubs but a couple of points of note would be:

The furlough scheme is great but it needs to be funded for about 6 weeks before any money is seen from the Govt. They are trying to get it sorted out for refunds to be made by the end of April but that still means every club is covering 6 weeks wages in full or at least 80% while they wait for it.

Also, the maximum value of the furlough probably means all the top division clubs and the top 3 or 4 payers in the Championship are not properly covered by it.

Clubs also probably still have some ongoing liabilities such as utility bills etc to cover.

So clubs are expecting to pay April’s wages on banked cash only? I can see why they’d like to boost those funds by getting spfl cash in just now and then use government refunds they get to make up for not getting that income in May 

[Dee Man]

1 minute ago, rainbowrising said:

Cant agree. I cannot see how we are suddenly The Man here with the power to wreak whatever we want. We'll be lucky to have one option on the table and if the answer is no are we really going to take down the huge number of clubs (some lets face it with a huge amount more leverage than we have) that voted in favour? 

No idea how you took all that from what I said. I never said we can wreak whatever we want, I said he's in a negotiating position. 

[Jock Tamson]

Lies

Why is it lies? What reason or reasons do Utd fans have to be raging? We're going up, no ifs, no buts. It's happening.

Dundee fans on the other hand are grasping at anything they possibly can. Jesus, you lot are lauding John Nelms, but for what exactly? Not sending his reject vote? Don't have a problem with Dundee voting No at all, they'll obviously do what's best for them.

The outcome of this vote really won't matter to Utd. They're 100% going up.

[Pull My Strings]

Just now, Dee Man said:

You have got literally no idea of what Dundee's position is, you have just pulled that out of your arse. If you think that virtually every club including especially your own didn't vote for self-serving purposes, you are naive in the extreme.

Yeah why would they do that, the self-serving b*****ds...

I'm not peddling any greater good lines. You are thick as f**k if you genuinely believe that in this current situation that any chairman, including yours, wouldn't be putting the interests of their own club first before anything else. Nelms is in exactly the position any businessman would want to be in. 

You're not taking this very well, but it's understandable. 

Oooft. Deep breath Dee Man.  Go back and read the thread if you're missing the references. I'm not disagreeing with you at all, simply adding context. 

[Jock Tamson]

Complete fabrication. 

It's not, honestly.

[craigkillie]

The story is wild and there is a lot which remains unexplained, but it would help if folk would think rationally rather than thrashing and jumping on every single mad theory out there (for example the ludicrous suggestion that a vote has been rejected due to the wrong mark a box).

Pretty much the only source for any of this stuff so far is Scott Gardiner.

The news that the Championship clubs had rejected the proposal came through Kheredine Idessane, a man who spends most of his time covering tennis, and who on two separate occasions thought there were 12 teams in the Championship. He is not habitually involved in reporting on football but suddenly seemed to want to turn into Sherlock Holmes on this story. It is now extremely clear that Gardiner is Idessane's source.

Idessane was also the one who reported the "technical error" in Dundee's vote. This will have come to him directly from Gardiner, based on what Drysdale told Gardiner and other Championship representatives. The "technical error" had nothing to do with whether the boxes were ticked or crossed, but was rather down to Dundee's explanation that they had sent the vote and it hadn't been received. Exactly what happened with Dundee's vote is unclear, but given that they have not yet offered a rebuttal to the SPFL's claim that they said their vote should not be considered cast, we can assume this is the most likely scenario.

Idessane has also shared images of the signed forms, again almost certainly via Gardiner. This does not prove anything - the form being shared on a WhatsApp group does not mean it was actually sent to the SPFL. This seems obvious, but lots of people on this forum and elsewhere seem to have failed to grasp that.

Gardiner claimed on the radio that Dundee had told them via this WhatsApp that they cast their vote, but that the SPFL did not receive it. I have no reason to believe he is lying about this. However, there is no evidence at all that the WhatsApp conversation leaked by "Nick Russell", a brand new Twitter account, is actually genuine. It may be, and someone may have deliberately leaked it, but it could also very easily be a fake put together by someone with an agenda. Rangers fans (and Hearts, Thistle etc) have jumped on it now, and even if it is proven to be fake loads will believe it.

This is a very common theme when it comes to Twitter. We have to remember that there are very many people who, despite constantly being told not to, will believe literally everything they read on social media if it suits their beliefs. Unscrupulous politicians take advantage of this all the time and it happens in football too. If someone wanted to whip up fury in Rangers fans they could very easily mock up a fake and then "leak" it.

For me, the only thing that is clear now is that this vote has been completely compromised. That may have been Gardiner's aim, but given that this is a guy who didn't realise football clubs needed a) shirt sponsors or b) seats, I'm not sure we can credit him with that level of intelligence. Nonetheless, it's clear that if this was to pass now, the decision would have no credibility. I think the only option now is to withdraw the resolution and propose something else (even something very similar) in the coming week.

[Dee Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Jock Tamson said:

Why is it lies? What reason or reasons do Utd fans have to be raging? We're going up, no ifs, no buts. It's happening.

Dundee fans on the other hand are grasping at anything they possibly can. Jesus, you lot are lauding John Nelms, but for what exactly? Not sending his reject vote? Don't have a problem with Dundee voting No at all, they'll obviously do what's best for them.

The outcome of this vote really won't matter to Utd. They're 100% going up.
 

If they survive. We’ll also wait on UEFA making a decision rather than the tinpot Scottish set up before deciding who’s going where

[rainbowrising]

2 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

No idea how you took all that from what I said. I never said we can wreak whatever we want, I said he's in a negotiating position. 

Yes but negotiate with what and alongside whom? The majority of clubs voted for this motion. What is it we have to negotiate for (an actual amendment or motion) that will suddenly have all these votes come to our side and back it? 

If our decision was No then we should have voted as such. Now we are completely isolated. That's not a negotiating position. 

[Jock Tamson]

If they survive.

You can live in hope.

[Dee Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Jock Tamson said:

 

 

You can live in hope.

 

You’ll be ok, any club spending 143% of income on players wages should be fine

Edited April 11, 2020 by Yenitit

[Crawford]

This started exciting and is now brexit levels of boring. 

[Dee Man]

Just now, rainbowrising said:

Yes but negotiate with what and alongside whom? The majority of clubs voted for this motion. What is it we have to negotiate for (an actual amendment or motion) that will suddenly have all these votes come to our side and back it? 

If our decision was No then we should have voted as such. Now we are completely isolated. That's not a negotiating position. 

There is no doubt Nelms will be getting contacted directly or indirectly by clubs attempting to get him to change his vote or keep it as it is. How he chooses to negotiate that side of the business is down to him. That's my theory. 

Why do you think he's delaying it?

[diegomarahenry]

33 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Also we keep hearing of clubs being desperate for cash.  But why?  I appreciate its trying times,  but with furlough and other government schemes + fan fundraising are clubs that far away from where they would have been? With all non-position payments payed then surely whilst it would be nice nobody is that reliant on final league payments? Are clubs genuinely saying if they had a bad season and finished further down the table than planned they’d go bust? 

Clubs have had 1 or 2 home games cancelled so far and wouldn’t be expecting the spfl cash for a while yet. Even without government/fan support this isn’t exactly an hit that can’t be absorbed? 

They mentioned this on Radio Scotland today, clubs will still have to pay wages until they get the cash from the government, many will have to pay the 20% shortfall because that is what the players are contracted to earn, along with non-playing staff. 

[Dee Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Dee Man said:

There is no doubt Nelms will be getting contacted directly or indirectly by clubs attempting to get him to change his vote or keep it as it is. How he chooses to negotiate that side of the business is down to him. That's my theory. 

Why do you think he's delaying it?

It’s already been said he was contacted by a ‘big hitting’ club at 5.03pm yesterday. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Yenitit