Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[Pull My Strings]

4 minutes ago, rb123! said:

I never said this would save clubs but it would stem a small bit of income generated for clubs, this money on top of Government assistance would hopefully be enough to see clubs through the worst.

Government is giving out financial assistance to businesses and industries to keep them afloat so i don't understand why the footbal industry should be left to battle on by themselves. I know the clubs can use the furlough but there should be a small hardship fund aswell IMO. 

Of course the football industry hasn't been left to fend for itself. Most, if not all, clubs in Scotland will be taking advantage of the furlough scheme for a start. It's a nice idea to think that more help might be available because of the particular difficulties which will face football clubs but the same argument could be said for virtually every industry in the the country. The supply of financial assistance can't be infinite.

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, rb123! said:

I never said this would save clubs but it would stem a small bit of income generated for clubs, this money on top of Government assistance would hopefully be enough to see clubs through the worst.

Government is giving out financial assistance to businesses and industries to keep them afloat so i don't understand why the footbal industry should be left to battle on by themselves. I know the clubs can use the furlough but there should be a small hardship fund aswell IMO. 

Er, there is. Those who pay rates (which presumably is most of them) get grants of either £10k or £25k. Rates relief next year is worth another five fig sum. There are business loans potentially available. Its not going to be enough to allow business operation with little or no income though.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Derry Alli]

24 minutes ago, rb123! said:

I never said this would save clubs but it would stem a small bit of income generated for clubs, this money on top of Government assistance would hopefully be enough to see clubs through the worst.

Government is giving out financial assistance to businesses and industries to keep them afloat so i don't understand why the footbal industry should be left to battle on by themselves. I know the clubs can use the furlough but there should be a small hardship fund aswell IMO. 

So to save clubs we should stop them being able to use the furlough scheme? 

You haven't really thought this through, have you? 

[craigkillie]

I would be surprised if the furlough scheme is still active in its current form in August, when most people are probably going to be returning to their work. Football (and pubs and similar public gathering places) are going to be in a different boat to most other companies at that point.

[Sergeant Wilson]

In all of these PPV proposals will it be the club volunteer cameraman that will film these. Who will monitor the quality, will you get money back if it's shite and he misses all the good bits. What if his car breaks down on the way, or the battery on his camera runs out. What recourse there be?

What about clubs that don't have a volunteer, do they need to pay somebody? Do they let the visiting club film it? How would they then get their share?

[Granny Danger]

The onus is on the fans, in conjunction with the owners, to keep our clubs afloat.

Some fans may have been heavily impacted financially by the virus, but most of us would have seen little or no changes to our immediate finances.

If people don’t want to put their hand in their pocket fair enough but don’t moan if your club goes tits up.

 

 

[Pull My Strings]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The onus is on the fans, in conjunction with the owners, to keep our clubs afloat.

Some fans may have been heavily impacted financially by the virus, but most of us would have seen little or no changes to our immediate finances.

If people don’t want to put their hand in their pocket fair enough but don’t moan if your club goes tits up.

 

 

I hope you're right but think you might be underestimating the impact on most households.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Pull My Strings said:

I hope you're right but think you might be underestimating the impact on most households.

Maybe not the right thread to discuss it, but with the job retention scheme and things like mortgage breaks I reckon the immediate effect not too bad.  Plus people are spending less.

Medium to long term might be different; I have no idea.  That’s  why I used the term ‘immediate’ in my post.

[Ad Lib]

36 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The onus is on the fans, in conjunction with the owners, to keep our clubs afloat.

Some fans may have been heavily impacted financially by the virus, but most of us would have seen little or no changes to our immediate finances.

If people don’t want to put their hand in their pocket fair enough but don’t moan if your club goes tits up.

The jump in claimant rate for Universal Credit suggests otherwise. You also necessarily do not know how many of those being furloughed are having the 80% of Government money topped-up by their employer.

The immediate challenge most people will face also isn't overall income, but cashflow. For those who are bona fide self-employed (a not unsubstantial proportion of the population) they don't get a penny of Government support until the end of June.

29 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe not the right thread to discuss it, but with the job retention scheme and things like mortgage breaks I reckon the immediate effect not too bad.

Mortgage breaks aren't free, Granny. They increase your payments later on and you accrue interest in the interim. Those claiming mortgage breaks are doing so because their finances have been put under stress by the virus.

It's not just "reasonable" but actively "prudent" for people in that situation not to say "gosh well now I'm paying £400 a month less until June I'm going to spunk £430 on renewing my seasons ticket in the Eddie Thompson stand"

29 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Plus people are spending less.

"You can't get your car fixed because the garage is shut, you can't buy new shoes because the clothes and shoe shops are shut, and you haven't had the plumber round because he's stopped working as he can't socially distance. But hey, I'm spending less so it's my fault if I don't bankroll my football club."

29 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Medium to long term might be different; I have no idea.  That’s  why I used the term ‘immediate’ in my post.

But spending decisions now will be influenced by someone's financial prospects in 3-6 months' time. Unless you're a complete and utter Dundee FC of a human being, that is.

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

 

But spending decisions now will be influenced by someone's financial prospects in 3-6 months' time. Unless you're a complete and utter Dundee FC of a human being, that is.

By that, do you mean insured?

[Ad Lib]

5 minutes ago, Speroni*1 said:

By that, do you mean insured?

  

On 20/04/2020 at 19:06, johnnydun said:

It's this idea that if we have to wait until 2021 for any league football, that only a handful of clubs will be left to support, utter bollocks.

All current football clubs will still exist in some form and all players are hardly going leave on mass to work in other professions. If your club folds it will just start again, with the same support following it.

The Dundee FC mentality to money.

[Ivo den Bieman]

4 hours ago, ayrunitedfw said:

By then the vast majority of Scottish clubs will have went bust. 

How exactly? If the Scottish government bans closed-doors football then there will be no signing of players and no on-going commitments. Clubs simply would have to go into abeyance and meet minimal costs until such times as football as we knew it was possible to be re-started. Like a factory with a skeleton crew waiting for a new buyer or a market upturn.

I don't accept that the "vast majority" of clubs will go bust. I don't like the way Nicola just swatted away the idea of football resuming behind closed doors. Lots of ideas, many impractical, will have to be considered as a way forward and it's not helpful to just shoot them down on the hoof. I recognise she will be frazzled and have a billion more important things to think about, but...

No one owes Scottish football anything. There will be no hand-outs from government and rightly so. If Scottish football's answer to this is to whine a lot, claim an exceptional role "in the community" and demand hand-outs then it will deserve to go under, frankly.

But I think the responses from clubs down the leagues have been quite good, using the furlough scheme where possible and minimising exposure to the club's finances. Better run clubs (e.g. Stenny) have sought to turn themselves into a community resource helping folk who need it. People will remember how clubs operated in these exceptional times.

Responses have to be creative and new and I am sure fanbases will step up to help as they are able. There's two big problems at present; people are desperate for certainties when none can be offered; people are moaning a huge amount that things won't go back to normal in lieu of these certainties.  We all have to band together somehow to ensure that the *institution* of Scottish football survives this. Maybe mediocre Championship footballer won't be able to claim £500 a week for their services after this is over with. So be it.

[johnnydun]

12 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

  

The Dundee FC mentality to money.

Going by our track record mate, we know how to save our club.

But if they were to fold and have to start again, I would still go and watch them each week once the football returned.

Unless you have some different idea if Partick Thistle folded you would have to watch another Glasgow team? Who would that be?

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Going by our track record mate, we know how to save our club.

But if they were to fold and have to start again, I would still go and watch them each week once the football returned.

Unless you have some different idea if Partick Thistle folded you would have to watch another Glasgow team? Who would that be?

Maryhill.

[bad chad]

13 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Going by our track record mate, we know how to save our club.

But if they were to fold and have to start again, I would still go and watch them each week once the football returned.

Unless you have some different idea if Partick Thistle folded you would have to watch another Glasgow team? Who would that be?

Rangers AND Celtic. 

Were all closet OF fans - so much so that we love them both. 

Has that helped you reach your happy ending? 

[Derry Alli]

20 minutes ago, bad chad said:

Rangers AND Celtic. 

Were all closet OF fans 

Not very well hidden, tbh. 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

I would be surprised if the furlough scheme is still active in its current form in August, when most people are probably going to be returning to their work. Football (and pubs and similar public gathering places) are going to be in a different boat to most other companies at that point.

They are, but if the Govt plans to throw the leisure industry to the wolves at that point then why bother throwing money at them right now? If they are going to abandon such businesses to bankruptcy then they may as well do it now rather than throw money at them for 4 months first. They are going to have to find some sort of compromise to continue to support such industries in my opinion.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe not the right thread to discuss it, but with the job retention scheme and things like mortgage breaks I reckon the immediate effect not too bad.  Plus people are spending less.

 

1 hour ago, Ad Lib said:

The jump in claimant rate for Universal Credit suggests otherwise. You also necessarily do not know how many of those being furloughed are having the 80% of Government money topped-up by their employer.

The immediate challenge most people will face also isn't overall income, but cashflow. For those who are bona fide self-employed (a not unsubstantial proportion of the population) they don't get a penny of Government support until the end of June.

Mortgage breaks aren't free, Granny. They increase your payments later on and you accrue interest in the interim. Those claiming mortgage breaks are doing so because their finances have been put under stress by the virus.

It's not just "reasonable" but actively "prudent" for people in that situation not to say "gosh well now I'm paying £400 a month less until June I'm going to spunk £430 on renewing my seasons ticket in the Eddie Thompson stand"

"You can't get your car fixed because the garage is shut, you can't buy new shoes because the clothes and shoe shops are shut, and you haven't had the plumber round because he's stopped working as he can't socially distance. But hey, I'm spending less so it's my fault if I don't bankroll my football club."

But spending decisions now will be influenced by someone's financial prospects in 3-6 months' time. Unless you're a complete and utter Dundee FC of a human being, that is.

Well inevitably the claimant rate for Universal Credit is going to jump up. There are people falling through cracks, mainly those who began self employment sometime after 5th April 2019 who haven't had a tax return yet to verify income but also those who began new jobs after 1st March and whose jobs are no longer there. In general though, most employed people will be ok financially. The employees in the worst position are those whose employer is still working so hasn't furloughed them, but has less work and are paid on an hourly basis or used to doing lots of overtime. Most furloughed staff, even at 80%, will probably be better off than before. There's a limit to what they can spend outside a supermarket. Sports grounds are closed, gyms are closed, pubs are closed, restaurants are closed, cinemas are closed, etc, etc. Chances are their spending is down by more than their income unless they were at the bottom end of the earnings scale in the first place, in which case they probably weren't throwing money at football clubs anyway.

You are right in that the cashflow for the self employed is a key issue for them, and a lot of those people are the small sponsors who top up football clubs income with ball and player sponsorship, etc. They don't represent "most people" though. A substantial minority, but not most people. Most people are employees and cashflow isn't any different for them.

I do agree though, the general notion that fans across the board will be able to throw as much money at football as they were doing before is likely complete fantasy. Even if we wave a magic wand, get a vaccine and have open door games by August (fantasy in itself) clubs are going to have to accept income will likely be down. The knock on inevitable effect will be felt in player wages. Budgets will be lower. Full time footballers will earn less. Some clubs on the cusp might revert to part time.

[DA Baracus]

1 hour ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

How exactly? If the Scottish government bans closed-doors football then there will be no signing of players and no on-going commitments. Clubs simply would have to go into abeyance and meet minimal costs until such times as football as we knew it was possible to be re-started. Like a factory with a skeleton crew waiting for a new buyer or a market upturn.

I don't accept that the "vast majority" of clubs will go bust. I don't like the way Nicola just swatted away the idea of football resuming behind closed doors. Lots of ideas, many impractical, will have to be considered as a way forward and it's not helpful to just shoot them down on the hoof. I recognise she will be frazzled and have a billion more important things to think about, but...

No one owes Scottish football anything. There will be no hand-outs from government and rightly so. If Scottish football's answer to this is to whine a lot, claim an exceptional role "in the community" and demand hand-outs then it will deserve to go under, frankly.

But I think the responses from clubs down the leagues have been quite good, using the furlough scheme where possible and minimising exposure to the club's finances. Better run clubs (e.g. Stenny) have sought to turn themselves into a community resource helping folk who need it. People will remember how clubs operated in these exceptional times.

Responses have to be creative and new and I am sure fanbases will step up to help as they are able. There's two big problems at present; people are desperate for certainties when none can be offered; people are moaning a huge amount that things won't go back to normal in lieu of these certainties.  We all have to band together somehow to ensure that the *institution* of Scottish football survives this. Maybe mediocre Championship footballer won't be able to claim £500 a week for their services after this is over with. So be it.

Most clubs will still have some players under contract until next season.

[Pull My Strings]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

Maybe not the right thread to discuss it, but with the job retention scheme and things like mortgage breaks I reckon the immediate effect not too bad.  Plus people are spending less.

Medium to long term might be different; I have no idea.  That’s  why I used the term ‘immediate’ in my post.

 Most people's financial situation will be adversely affected long before the football comes back in any form.

1 hour ago, Speroni*1 said:

By that, do you mean insured?

I took it to mean feckless.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Pull My Strings