Sunderland Til I Die

[Arabdownunder]

Charlie Methven is a total David Brent and any criticisms based on his personal characteristics are probably justified.
However, any criticism of him in a business sense here are simply clueless c***s talking pish. As has been mentioned previously, turning around and nullifying the astronomical losses the club were making so quickly (in the grand scheme of things) was incredible work. 

Yeah, nah. A big chunk of the previous years deficit would come from paying off the parade of managers and coaches we saw in season one. Add to that the expenditure on buying the spuds signed by the aforementioned parade. Then there's the (management bullshit bingo alert) low hanging fruit in the form of the previous regime's excesses which any half competent businessman could harvest. Solid work but not incredible.

Plus he wears red breeks

[Derry Alli]

He is where Bob Mortimer got Barry Homeowner from. 

[Stu]

Has anyone who has watched STID watched the Leeds documentary on Amazon Prime? It's rubbish by comparison - not sure if that's because it's just not very good or because it's not as good as the Sunderland one.

Unlikely on here, but would be intrigued to get the thoughts of someone on these sorts of shows, or the Netflix F1 series, who didn't know how the season panned out before watching.

[Homer Thompson]

Has anyone who has watched STID watched the Leeds documentary on Amazon Prime? It's rubbish by comparison - not sure if that's because it's just not very good or because it's not as good as the Sunderland one.
Unlikely on here, but would be intrigued to get the thoughts of someone on these sorts of shows, or the Netflix F1 series, who didn't know how the season panned out before watching.

I thought the Leeds one was better. Unless I'm remembering wrong, I thought you saw more behind the scenes than at Sunderland.

The Man City one was better again.

[Twinkle]

Watched both seasons over the last few days. Feel really sorry for Sunderland, their fans and the city (despite the brexity nonsense). Its seems they suffer from one f**k up to another and just when it looks like theyve turned a corner, they get knocked back down again. The new owners clearly have the club at heart and that affected his judgement with regards the Grigg transfer and despite being a bell-end, Methven has done a great job commercially and looks the most animated and passionate during matches. I hope that they do get promoted asap and get back to a level where they expect/should be given the resources around them

Ha'way the lads

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Twinkle said:

 Methven has done a great job commercially and looks the most animated and passionate during matches

...or the most aware of the cameras.

[Torpar]

Finished the second series at the week, best British comedy series on Netflix since People Just Do Nothing. 

The Will Grigg saga was pretty entertaining, when they showed the ex-military fan listening to the radio when they announced the signing and how much they paid, I was waiting for him to say something critical, instead he and all the other fans featured seemed to think it was a massive coup and was the key to automatic promotion. Losing both finals in the most Sunderland way possible was hilarious too, brought back memories of laughing about the 98 playoff final in high school. The constant belief from everyone in the documentary that  "we're a massive club" despite being at best joint 2nd biggest club in the North East of England, means I have no sympathy for them at all. The only people that came across well to me were McGeady, O'Nein and Ross.

I do love these behind the scenes shows, the Boca one and Maradona in Mexico were decent, as was the Man City and Dortmund ones on Amazon Prime. Unfortunately the Leeds one doesn't seem to be available in Canada, shame as lower league stuff is usually more interesting 

 

[TheScarf]

Sunderland have never been a big club. 

The only people who think or say it are their own fans. Everyone else in the UK thinks they're just a beige yo-yo club. Which they are. 

Even objectively, under what criteria are they a big club? They won the FA Cup about 300 years ago and finished 7th in the Barclays once.

Edit -  They're basically Wigan Athletic. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by TheScarf

[mac.i]

The Four Year Plan about QPR; filmed at the time Flavio Briattore, Bernie Eccleston an Amit Bhatia bought the club is worth a watch.

Its on Amazon Prime utter car crash from Gianni Paladini.

[Replays]

Watched both seasons and enjoyed them. Started to feel sorry for Sunderland until I remembered that I support Clyde.

[sjc]

4 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Sunderland have never been a big club. 

The only people who think or say it are their own fans. Everyone else in the UK thinks they're just a beige yo-yo club. Which they are. 

Even objectively, under what criteria are they a big club? They won the FA Cup about 300 years ago and finished 7th in the Barclays once.

Edit -  They're basically Wigan Athletic. 

They were a big club for a brief spell in the early 1900s and in the 50s but other than those two purple patches you're correct.

The comparison to Wigan is disengenuous though

[arab_joe]

6 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Sunderland have never been a big club. 

Even objectively, under what criteria are they a big club?

Edit -  They're basically Wigan Athletic. 

For all of their issues, Sunderland still get an incredible support which is generally a sign of a big club.  Even in League One they rank 16th in England - behind 14 Premier League clubs and Leeds United.  That is, objectively speaking, impressive.  If you've been to games at the Stadium of Light, it is impossible not to realise how pivotally important they are to the city of Sunderland.

The comparison with Wigan Athletic is pretty ridiculous: Wigan are a tiny club that only gained any relevance in 1995 when they were bought and bankrolled by Dave Whelan - until that point they were essentially a non-league club that a few people went to watch when the rugby league club were playing away... 

Unless you're a Newcastle fan having a laugh - in which case, fair play.  Oh, and enjoy the chant of "we saw you cry on Netflix!" - one of the best chants I've heard for ages.

[Armand 2]

The Maja/Grigg fiasco was absurd.

Firstly, Maja was under contract for another 6 months yet Donald seemed to think he was powerless to stop him moving in January. It seemed that Maja packed up his stuff and fucked off to France without a deal being agreed (or maybe that was just how it was edited). Keeping him and letting him go for nothing at the end of the year didn't appear to be discussed. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that if they did that, they would quite probably won promotion given he had 15 league goals by Christmas. There didn't seem to be much cost-benefit analysis carried out, it seemed more 'take what we can get'.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I don't recall too many folk decrying the signing of Grigg at the time. Yes, I think people would have baulked at the figures quoted but this was a guy who had been the top scorer in the division the season before. However, when you see the negotiation (and the complete absence of an alternative option), it was a deal off on the wrong foot straightaway. The most damning indictment was Jack Ross saying he wasn't worth any more than 1.25 million yet Donald blundered on. What control did Ross actually have over signings at the club? And how did that deal impact on his ability to make signings for this season?

I think it was clear by the JP Trophy Final, both Donald and Methven were near the end of their tether with Ross' tactics - and by the conclusion of the play-offs, many of the fans had enough too. Whilst I did notice that they were drawing a lot of games, I didn't quite realise how much of a bottlejob it had been. Quite surprised he wasn't sent packing in the summer.

Methven was like a David Brent/Alan Partridge hybrid but I don't think there's any argument that he salvaged an already partially sunk ship. I'm not quite sure what happened to the Irish bird who seemed to take it upon herself to be as insolent as possible whenever Methven was near - the show seemed to infer she was sacked but others say she was 'redistributed' - but that seemed to embody the cultural cancer at the club. Even the media boy didn't try too hard to hide his disdain for Methven. 

Donald seemed to win brownie points by having a pint before games and sitting in with the away fans but I don' think ever had the money to underwrite something the size of Sunderland. I think he saw an opportunity to stem the losses, get the club on an upward trajectory and sell it on within 2-3 years. Had they got promotion last year, he might have been on the way to doing it. As it stands, it looks like it'll be a third season in the third tier and he's going to run out of money quickly - which lends itself to any chancer getting their foot in the door again.

[Derry Alli]

I've never really followed the big support = big club theory. 

What is the passmark that you go from medium sized to big? 20,000? 30,000?

[Homer Thompson]

The Maja/Grigg fiasco was absurd.
Firstly, Maja was under contract for another 6 months yet Donald seemed to think he was powerless to stop him moving in January. It seemed that Maja packed up his stuff and fucked off to France without a deal being agreed (or maybe that was just how it was edited). Keeping him and letting him go for nothing at the end of the year didn't appear to be discussed. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that if they did that, they would quite probably won promotion given he had 15 league goals by Christmas. There didn't seem to be much cost-benefit analysis carried out, it seemed more 'take what we can get'.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I don't recall too many folk decrying the signing of Grigg at the time. Yes, I think people would have baulked at the figures quoted but this was a guy who had been the top scorer in the division the season before. However, when you see the negotiation (and the complete absence of an alternative option), it was a deal off on the wrong foot straightaway. The most damning indictment was Jack Ross saying he wasn't worth any more than 1.25 million yet Donald blundered on. What control did Ross actually have over signings at the club? And how did that deal impact on his ability to make signings for this season?
I think it was clear by the JP Trophy Final, both Donald and Methven were near the end of their tether with Ross' tactics - and by the conclusion of the play-offs, many of the fans had enough too. Whilst I did notice that they were drawing a lot of games, I didn't quite realise how much of a bottlejob it had been. Quite surprised he wasn't sent packing in the summer.
Methven was like a David Brent/Alan Partridge hybrid but I don't think there's any argument that he salvaged an already partially sunk ship. I'm not quite sure what happened to the Irish bird who seemed to take it upon herself to be as insolent as possible whenever Methven was near - the show seemed to infer she was sacked but others say she was 'redistributed' - but that seemed to embody the cultural cancer at the club. Even the media boy didn't try too hard to hide his disdain for Methven. 
Donald seemed to win brownie points by having a pint before games and sitting in with the away fans but I don' think ever had the money to underwrite something the size of Sunderland. I think he saw an opportunity to stem the losses, get the club on an upward trajectory and sell it on within 2-3 years. Had they got promotion last year, he might have been on the way to doing it. As it stands, it looks like it'll be a third season in the third tier and he's going to run out of money quickly - which lends itself to any chancer getting their foot in the door again.

If Maja wanted away, which he clearly did with his agent feeding his head with big paydays, there's no scenario where the club keeps a player performing at the same level as before the transfer window.

[DrewDon]

The objectively best football documentary is 'Warnock'. Available on YouTube here: