johnnydun Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Stanislav Petrov said: Rule A3 and C38 are open to legal argument. I take it by this you agree that it's in the rules that you can be relegated after 30 games? Good luck arguing the rules that Hearts signed up to at the start of the season. In what way can it be argued? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, ropy said: I don’t see how you get 38 games but for 16 it would have to be option 3) not ideal but workable, the imbalance of the final 7 games would need to be evened out on a rolling year by year basis, not great but doesn’t split the league halfway through Apologies, 40 games. You're right. But the point about 37 games is a major obstacle to 16 I think. Can you imagine a relegation head-to-head where Team A has to go to play Team B away from home after the split. How do you balance that out year-on-year if they get relegated? No team is going to be happy with that. You're making every single issue in the division weighted unfairly. Imagine if Motherwell were going for Europe next season in direct competition with Aberdeen and had to play them twice away from home and missed out by a point. Then the following season had a poor season and were head-to-head for relegation with St Johnstone and had to play them away from home twice and ended up going down? Perfectly feasible and no way to iron that out. It would lead to paranoia off the scale. Five years in every support in the country would be saying "How come five years ago we had to go there twice, then we had to go there twice" etc etc. And as clubs move around from season to season there would be some clubs repeatedly winning from the scenario and some clubs repeatedly losing. It's a jigsaw you can only fit if the same teams finish in the same positions every year. That doesn't happen. 16 is the least viable number of the lot. Edited June 11, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Yes you can, it's in the rules. Had a look at those DFC accounts yet Johnny? Who owns the ground btw? Still, if the worst comes to the worst, you can always share with United. Lochee United. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Apologies, 40 games. You're right. But the point about 37 games is a major obstacle to 16 I think. Can you imagine a relegation head-to-head where Team A has to go to play Team B away from home after the split. How do you balance that out year-on-year if they get relegated? No team is going to be happy with that. You're making every single issue in the division weighted unfairly. Imagine if Motherwell were going for Europe next season in direct competition with Aberdeen and had to play them twice away from home and missed out by a point. Then the following season had a poor season and were head-to-head for relegation with St Johnstone and had to play them away from home twice and ended up going down? Perfectly feasible and no way to iron that out. 16 is the least viable number of the lot. Sixteen with seven post match games would be fair, you could just say the top four in each section get the "extra" home game. So it would be fair as teams would be rewarded based on finishing position. You could also ensure that whichever of teams within a city had the advantage of the extra home derby game. Maybe even allow teams to choose which home games they want with the top team from each section getting first pick? Noone could argue it wasn't fair, then. That would lead to quite a lot of arguing so would be good fun, I'd have thought. Edited June 11, 2020 by Bully Wee Villa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Erm, Dunfermline finished 6th so you still wouldn't be in that.I know. Get rid of as much of the competition as possible for next season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Pet Jeden said: Who owns the ground btw? John Bennett owns the ground. Much like James Anderson he's pumped money into Scottish football (Via the two Dundee teams) and expected nothing in return. All round good guy. Even suspended any rent we have to pay (Which is minimal anyway - just trying to recoup his money) whilst this is all going on. What's your point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bully Wee Villa said: Sixteen with seven post match games would be fair, you could just say the top four in each section get the "extra" home game. So it would be fair as teams would be rewarded based on finishing position. You could also ensure that whichever of teams within a city had the advantage of the extra home derby game. Maybe even allow teams to choose which home games they want with the top team from each section getting first pick? Noone could argue it wasn't fair, then. That would lead to quite a lot of arguing so would be good fun, I'd have thought. Nah. You're just disadvantaging teams lower down the league. They might have had injuries or suspensions or whatever. Also, there's no sense in making it progressively harder for clubs during a season. 16 with a 7-game split is miles worse than any of the other suggestions. It would be chaos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: Exactly. We're told Hearts were maybe about to hit a run of form like nothing they've looked like achieving all season with only 8 games left. They have been lulling the rest of the division into a false sense of security. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, johnnydun said: I take it by this you agree that it's in the rules that you can be relegated after 30 games? Good luck arguing the rules that Hearts signed up to at the start of the season. In what way can it be argued? What's your email address Johnny? We'll ask Ann to send you over the Hearts QC opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Apologies, 40 games. You're right. But the point about 37 games is a major obstacle to 16 I think. Can you imagine a relegation head-to-head where Team A has to go to play Team B away from home after the split. How do you balance that out year-on-year if they get relegated? No team is going to be happy with that. You're making every single issue in the division weighted unfairly. Imagine if Motherwell were going for Europe next season in direct competition with Aberdeen and had to play them twice away from home and missed out by a point. Then the following season had a poor season and were head-to-head for relegation with St Johnstone and had to play them away from home twice and ended up going down? Perfectly feasible and no way to iron that out. 16 is the least viable number of the lot. It wouldn’t all be about head to heads, if we were away against St Johnstone this may balance with a home game against Hearts whereas Saints have to go to Tynecastle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Day Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Just now, Ludo*1 said: What's your point? His poorly hidden point is that fan ownership is the way forward, not to be owned by one person. He neatly ignores that his own fan owned club would be several million in debt were it not for James Anderson.............but why would he bother with facts? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: Nah. You're just disadvantaging teams lower down the league. They might have had injuries or suspensions or whatever. Also, there's no sense in making it progressively harder for clubs during a season. 16 with a 7-game split is miles worse than any of the other suggestions. It would be chaos. "Chaos"? A bit over the top. One extra home game, decided by league position. At present teams get one extra home game pre-split decided by... reasons. 14 team would be fairer as it negates any home/away advantage but I don't think many would consider such fairness as a reasonable trade for the very early split and uneven post-split sections, meaning 6/14 teams are left twiddling their thumbs for two matchdays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, craigkillie said: The winners of the SPL used to get 17% and the Premiership winners now get 13.4%. Erm, Dunfermline finished 6th so you still wouldn't be in that. Presumably that was 17% of the top league’s money versus 13.4% of the entire SPFL take? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, ropy said: It wouldn’t all be about head to heads, if we were away against St Johnstone this may balance with a home game against Hearts whereas Saints have to go to Tynecastle Course it's not all about head-to-head. I just don't see the attraction in a league where literally every issue in the division is decided between sides who have lopsided fixtures against each other. That level of imbalance calls into question the whole point of having a home and away league. Teams wouldn't be playing with an even deck in terms of fixtures. I don't see how that could ever seem a good idea. Especially when there are other options that get us a much better balance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanislav Petrov Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said: I'd rather have rented our stadium to Celtic for money than have gone into administration and failed to pay money we owed to actual charities, but that's just me. A dark time in our history. But without it we wouldn’t have the foundation of Hearts. Anyway you don’t come across as being bitter at all.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: John Bennett owns the ground. Much like James Anderson he's pumped money into Scottish football (Via the two Dundee teams) and expected nothing in return. All round good guy. Even suspended any rent we have to pay (Which is minimal anyway - just trying to recoup his money) whilst this is all going on. What's your point? Johnny was having a laugh at the maroon pound nonsense. Had a quick look at Dundee's last reported accounts and thought sheesh, they certainly are in need of somebody's pound. If the ground is in the hands of somebody local with the club's interests at heart, then that's good. Edited June 11, 2020 by Pet Jeden 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 minute ago, JTS98 said: Course it's not all about head-to-head. I just don't see the attraction in a league where literally every issue in the division is decided between sides who have lopsided fixtures against each other. That level of imbalance calls into question the whole point of having a home and away league. Teams wouldn't be playing with an even deck in terms of fixtures. I don't see how that could ever seem a good idea. Especially when there are other options that get us a much better balance. Yes, 12 is better 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pet Jeden Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Green Day said: His poorly hidden point is that fan ownership is the way forward, not to be owned by one person. He neatly ignores that his own fan owned club would be several million in debt were it not for James Anderson.............but why would he bother with facts? Or Levein would have had to make do with a 60 man squad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said: Had a look at those DFC accounts yet Johnny? Who owns the ground btw? Still, if the worst comes to the worst, you can always share with United. Lochee United. 'Dundee FC in loss making shocker' We still don't need your Maroon pound, although it looks like we will still be getting it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanislav Petrov Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, johnnydun said: I take it by this you agree that it's in the rules that you can be relegated after 30 games? Good luck arguing the rules that Hearts signed up to at the start of the season. In what way can it be argued? The SPFL can call the league after 5 games but it doesn’t mean that decision wouldn’t be beyond reproach from a legal case. Have you not seen the court decisions in France and Belgium? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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