jimbaxters Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 24 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: No, the licensing requirement was explicitly brought in to build a pyramid system below the national leagues. You're right though that clubs saw it as an opportunity to make money through the Scottish Cup without changing their status quo. Which is why the commitment to the pyramid aspect was added. Fair comment. The point I was making is that that was their motivation rather than getting to the LL and beyond. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennie Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 15 hours ago, ibenji said: I think all west prem teams have to be licensed within 5 years possibly? We’re probably about half way there just now and not sure who’s applying this year too The problem with making the Premier Division for Licenced clubs only, was replacement of clubs that will eventually move up to the LL. Even if things don't change in regards to the play-off situation, it is still possible that we could lose 1 team per season upwards, if that was to happen over 5 years, where are the teams that could replace them if a restriction was in place? Plus if there was a time limit put on existing teams to get a licence, what happens to those teams when they cannot get a licence? Relegate them? Even if we don't have a replacement for them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmachine Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, jimbaxters said: You're all forgetting the majority of clubs in the WoSFL moved over because they had to, not because they wanted to get a license. This was never given as a requirement to join the league so shouldn't be forced now (not that the WoSFL are forcing it). The licensing requirement was brought in to gain entry to the Scottish Cup which is why some clubs went for it as this is a potentially lucrative revenue stream, much like the reason why the entry was higher this year for the Junior cup. Progression through the leagues is not desirable for some clubs. They didn’t have to move over to the WoSFL if they didn’t want to progress. They could all just have stayed in the West Region Juniors! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmachine Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 28 minutes ago, Kennie said: The problem with making the Premier Division for Licenced clubs only, was replacement of clubs that will eventually move up to the LL. Even if things don't change in regards to the play-off situation, it is still possible that we could lose 1 team per season upwards, if that was to happen over 5 years, where are the teams that could replace them if a restriction was in place? Plus if there was a time limit put on existing teams to get a licence, what happens to those teams when they cannot get a licence? Relegate them? Even if we don't have a replacement for them. The league should have made sure that if a champion was unlicensed then the next placed licensed club went into the play offs. Clubs spending cash on players without spending it on infrastructure shouldn’t be rewarded for it! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Pyramid Watcher said: The SFA have suspended new applications for now, not sure how long that will last. That seems rather unfair from SFA so no longer want any more new licensed clubs now?! Will be clubs like Beith, Hurlford and others looking to get licensing sorted in next couple of years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennie Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, Greenmachine said: The league should have made sure that if a champion was unlicensed then the next placed licensed club went into the play offs. Clubs spending cash on players without spending it on infrastructure shouldn’t be rewarded for it! That wasn't down to the WoSFL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: I don't. Not only because the WoSFL might well have continued to add new members, increasing what "half" would represent. But much like the East things will peter out the further down the divisions you go. Not everyone will have the resources to do it. There's also the chance that licencing standards will gradually heighten putting it further out of reach. Dealing with the last part first. That's up there with if your had haw maws she'd be your uncle. Although in 2023 Scotland that might not be a true statement. Maybe leave that open. Reason why i posted about half is because I expect at least half or more wosfl teams to have the devils candles by then. Get the floodlights and clubs are half way to a licence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenmachine Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, Kennie said: That wasn't down to the WoSFL Clubs should’ve just stayed in the West Juniors if they had no intention of getting licensed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, PossilYM said: Dealing with the last part first. That's up there with if your had haw maws she'd be your uncle. Although in 2023 Scotland that might not be a true statement. Maybe leave that open. Not really. If you've looked at the licencing manuals over the 10+ years, there have been changes almost every other year in some. It's not a static document but one that's constantly reviewed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennie Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 59 minutes ago, Greenmachine said: They didn’t have to move over to the WoSFL if they didn’t want to progress. They could all just have stayed in the West Region Juniors! 16 minutes ago, Greenmachine said: Clubs should’ve just stayed in the West Juniors if they had no intention of getting licensed. Got it the first time. Yet here we all are, all together in the WoSFL. Time to move on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: No one made anyone join the wosl. Indeed many clubs would have been better just staying junior given a lack of ambition. No slight on them, they were happy doing their thing and local rivalries were the main focus for them. 1 hour ago, Greenmachine said: They didn’t have to move over to the WoSFL if they didn’t want to progress. They could all just have stayed in the West Region Juniors! Both of you are factually correct but you will surely remember that it was basically Hobson's Choice. The product would have been diluted beyond recognition. The move over kept the league together but to start imposing rules on licensing would have diluted it both sides of the divide. Didn't make sense for anyone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 There will be clubs who will struggle to get floodlights due to local planning rules and/or objections from neighbours. They shouldn't have to worry about what league they play in because of something outwith their control. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sox Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 5 hours ago, beithboy said: Wondering why Auchinleck do not have a midweek fixture, as they are so far behind in games and are playing in the cup on Saturday, could have a fixture home or away with the teams they have to play. That is a very good point, maybe they don't want to be puffed out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramid Watcher Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Shannon said: That seems rather unfair from SFA so no longer want any more new licensed clubs now?! Will be clubs like Beith, Hurlford and others looking to get licensing sorted in next couple of years. It does, but I suspect that they do not want to issue any further voting rights to the lower leagues. In short they don’t want the tail wagging the dog. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, Pyramid Watcher said: It does, but I suspect that they do not want to issue any further voting rights to the lower leagues. In short they don’t want the tail wagging the dog. They did away with the voting rights for new members a couple of years ago. Don't kick in until HL/LL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beithboy Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Sam North (footy adventures) was at Beith v Darvel) his video is well worth a watch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanner Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 It's possible to concurrently wish to see your team progress through the pyramid as far as possible while also wishing that the LL wasn't so clearly and absolutely shite. No matter how progressive you proclaim to be I'd be sceptical of the honesty anyone saying they don't think the LL is anything better than a purgatory division that has to be endured rather than enjoyed. Yes, there are reasons for that which can be substantially laid at the doors of the traditional minded teams in the WOS league, but lamenting past actions doesn't make the current situation any better whether you were on one side of the argument or the other. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, jimbaxters said: You're all forgetting the majority of clubs in the WoSFL moved over because they had to, not because they wanted to get a license. This was never given as a requirement to join the league so shouldn't be forced now (not that the WoSFL are forcing it). The licensing requirement was brought in to gain entry to the Scottish Cup which is why some clubs went for it as this is a potentially lucrative revenue stream, much like the reason why the entry was higher this year for the Junior cup. Progression through the leagues is not desirable for some clubs. Not one person said the teams moved over to gain a license. I was informed not too long ago that there will be no requirement for any WOSFL team to gain a license UNLESS they want to play in the Scottish Cup and the potential to move higher throughout the leagues. They had to move over as you say because the Junior FA were inadequate in their power struggles. You have to remember a lot of committees listened to the junior FA and then realized it was a dud, too many committees living in the past and not looking to the future. I do believe and said cpl of years ago that the SFA license rules will tighten so best get their license as soon as. FACT the Scottish Junior cup this season has less playing in it than last year and all of the clubs who have gained their license will look carefully at leaving the Scottish Junior cup next season thinking its not worth it as they would rather concentrate on the more lucrative Scottish Cup. As far as I'm aware every one of the WOSFL Teams found it beneficial financially and some more than other with exposure. Progression through the leagues is not desirable for some clubs, 100%, agreed, most lower down are at their level BUT, if the right people came in with a bit of oomph and careful planning then one of those clubs could rise through the ranks in the future with a good backing, sponsorship, right social media and bringing fans in I am not for the Junior cup any more but I'm not saying bin it to all teams I just think that it will continue to fade. I will not make up stories and go against the facts in order for people to think the same viewpoint as me, rather people make their own educated viewpoint and go from there with the corrects facts and reading everyone viewpoint for and against. But then again, after the first red mark, some people just cant deal with the truth Edited February 27, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) According to Wiki, entry to the Junior Cup: 2017-18: 157 2018-19: 129 2019-20: 132 2021-22: 110 2022-23: 108 It will probably continue to fluctuate now with some members coming and going. There seems to be no sign of any of the new west clubs joining the cup and of east clubs re-joining so far so it will simply rely on the old west junior clubs and the north/midlands sides continuing to enter. Edited February 27, 2023 by stanley Mistake 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 53 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: Not one person said the teams moved over to gain a license. I was informed not too long ago that there will be no requirement for any WOSFL team to gain a license UNLESS they want to play in the Scottish Cup and the potential to move higher throughout the leagues. They had to move over as you say becuase the Junior FA were inadequate in their power struggles. You have to remember a lot of committees listened to the junior FA and then realized it was a dud, too many committees living in the past and not looking to the future. I do believe and said cpl of years ago that the SFA license rules will tighten so best get their license as soon as. FACT the Scottish Junior cup this season has less playing in it than last year and all of the clubs who have gained their license will look carefully at leaving the Scottish Junior cup next season thinking its not worth it as they would rather concentrate on the more lucrative Scottish Cup. As far as I'm aware every one of the WOSFL Teams found it beneficial financially and some more than other with exposure. Progression through the leagues is not desirable for some clubs, 100%, agreed, most lower down are at their level BUT, if the right people came in with a bit of oomph and careful planning then one of those clubs rise through the ranks in the future with a good backing, sponsorship, right social media and bringing fans in I am not for the Junior cup any more but I'm not saying bin it to all teams I just think that it will continue to fade. I will not make up stories and go against the facts in order for people to think the same viewpoint as me, rather people make their own educated viewpoint and go from there with the corrects facts and reading everyone viewpoint for and against. But then again, after the first red mark, some people just cant deal with the truth The usual flim-flam from you. What are you on about "making up stories"? You should read posts carefully rather than trying to point score with your word salads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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