WoSFL Premier Division thread

[PossilYM]

12 hours ago, glensmad said:

Ok, so finally you've been brave enough to respond, well done.

I assume you are aware that the pyramid existed before the WoSFL did, and the Lowland League had an agreement with the EoSFL and the SoSFL prior to the WoSFL asking to be part of that. For that agreement to change, it required the agreement of all three existing parties, and the Scottish FA.

Part of that agreement was that only champion clubs who are licensed can be promoted to the LL. The WoSFL had to agree to those terms, otherwise the Scottish FA would not have sanctioned the WoSFL's entry to the pyramid.

 

It's as simple as that. It may change in the future if all five parties agree to change it, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I hope that gives you some clarity.

Brave enough???

lol

 

 

[glensmad]

1 hour ago, PossilYM said:

Brave enough???

lol

 

 

Well it took you at least five invitations to do so.

[rhubarb1974]

Really poor result from Clydebank at weekend, they will be desperate for all 3 points this weekend against us however we know a win would help our case for the league massively. 

 

I've seen the Bankies twice in past few weeks, very lucky against Talbot, got what they deserved against Largs.

 

St Cadocs dropping 3 points at the weekend along with the fact St Cadocs and Clydebank need to play each other twice in the league still plays into our hands. 

 

I don't see any league as exciting as ours. LL one horse race yet again. EOSL one horse race. 

 

 

[razamanaz]

Is there any record kept of the attendances in the WoSFL?

[rhubarb1974]

7 minutes ago, razamanaz said:

Is there any record kept of the attendances in the WoSFL?

Some teams do others don't. I personally would like clubs to put out an official attendance each game.

[GNU_Linux]

8 minutes ago, razamanaz said:

Is there any record kept of the attendances in the WoSFL?

The person from Blackburn who used to collate attendances covered all of non-league but they had to step back from doing it. The person from Mussy who collates them currently is only able to do LL & EOS.

[not man of the match]

All of our attendances are logged on the Bankies archive website.

[GLENAFTON_LOYAL]

On 22/02/2024 at 08:14, rhubarb1974 said:

Well they did sell their own ground then things happened transpired how they thought they would. 

 

Not sure the ins and outs, but they did have their own ground which was a good ground to visit. 

Under what circumstances though, surely they'd have to have been promised something , like the astro which is now unless I'm mistaken now open yet they're still needing to share guys meadow 

[Arthurlie1981]

40 minutes ago, GLENAFTON_LOYAL said:

Under what circumstances though, surely they'd have to have been promised something , like the astro which is now unless I'm mistaken now open yet they're still needing to share guys meadow 

It's a long and convoluted story but here are the highlights (as I recall them) to save time lol.

They sold the social club behind the goal and then sold the ground several years later. The looked at a number of sites in Kirkintilloch but ran into a number of issues across all of the sites (including 1 that was on a flood plain and SEPA objected). They had decided that part of the deal with the builders was that KRR would find the replacement and not the builders (similar to Baillieston) and eventually ran out of time when the builders asked them to leave and they had to move to Guys Meadow.

The new Astro is something completely different and they are hoping to get to run it after the council built it but there seems to be an ongoing issue in finalising the contract.

[rhubarb1974]

Since the pyramid was introduced, has the standard of football increased within the league? 

 

I know it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses however does for example the Talbot, Pollok, Kilwinning Rangers, Irvine Meadow etc..team of 5 years ago beat their current team of today? 

 

We aren't a good example as there had obviously been investment in the club that hadn't been there before. 

 

Has attendances increased? I would say on average across the league no due to having teams like St Cadocs and Gartcairn in the league who are virtually unsupported. If you go back 5 years you had other well supported clubs in Kilbirnie, Kilwinning Rangers etc...in the league. 

 

Cup competitions is there much difference other than the licensed clubs now get into the big Scottish. The South Challenge is a non event for me, West of Scotland Cup would be fine however the full Broadwood carry on is a real dampener for me. I personally am glad that the our committee had opted us back into the Scottish, for me without a doubt the biggest non-league cup in Scotland, if teams get the option to play in it I don't know why they wouldn't. It has the biggest prize pot available as well. 

 

I accept in a lot of occasions grounds have improved however their is a rise of "council" type facilities in use which I personally do not like. We've made considerable changes and I don't think anyone will argue. You still have top grounds like Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Talbot etc...however there are now more teams ground sharing and in my opinion sub standard playing facilities such as New Tinto. I have also been a critic of KR for their new pitch, I think a very poorly laid out pitch and viewing points, give me Abbey Park any day however I am old school. 

 

I accept the "modern fans" may like bland 3G parks with no character or history. As much as I don't like Talbot (mainly because they have been the dominant team for years) there is something special about their ground, always immaculate condition, always improving and they still have a social club which not many clubs have now unfortunately.  Irvine Meadow and Pollok similar although Pollok no longer have their social club. 

 

Has there been an increase in questionable money sources within the league? I would say undoubtable. Do we now have a league where proceeds of crime that cause misery through our communities is now being processed, again I would have to say yes. I don't exclude ourselves from that, there is one or two sponsor (how much they put in I don't know) that we are better avoiding, whether that be because of previous convictions or known business activities. It is a hard one to balance however more needs to be done, that starts with clubs having a back bone and knocking back the sponsors which I dare say is easier said than done. 

 

Are we in a better place than we were prior to the pyramid system. Plenty got said about the "blazers" at the SJFA however you now have a WOS board working to suit their own agendas. 

 

What are the thoughts?

[Shanner]

17 minutes ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Since the pyramid was introduced, has the standard of football increased within the league? 

 

I know it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses however does for example the Talbot, Pollok, Kilwinning Rangers, Irvine Meadow etc..team of 5 years ago beat their current team of today? 

 

We aren't a good example as there had obviously been investment in the club that hadn't been there before. 

 

Has attendances increased? I would say on average across the league no due to having teams like St Cadocs and Gartcairn in the league who are virtually unsupported. If you go back 5 years you had other well supported clubs in Kilbirnie, Kilwinning Rangers etc...in the league. 

 

Cup competitions is there much difference other than the licensed clubs now get into the big Scottish. The South Challenge is a non event for me, West of Scotland Cup would be fine however the full Broadwood carry on is a real dampener for me. I personally am glad that the our committee had opted us back into the Scottish, for me without a doubt the biggest non-league cup in Scotland, if teams get the option to play in it I don't know why they wouldn't. It has the biggest prize pot available as well. 

 

I accept in a lot of occasions grounds have improved however their is a rise of "council" type facilities in use which I personally do not like. We've made considerable changes and I don't think anyone will argue. You still have top grounds like Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Talbot etc...however there are now more teams ground sharing and in my opinion sub standard playing facilities such as New Tinto. I have also been a critic of KR for their new pitch, I think a very poorly laid out pitch and viewing points, give me Abbey Park any day however I am old school. 

 

I accept the "modern fans" may like bland 3G parks with no character or history. As much as I don't like Talbot (mainly because they have been the dominant team for years) there is something special about their ground, always immaculate condition, always improving and they still have a social club which not many clubs have now unfortunately.  Irvine Meadow and Pollok similar although Pollok no longer have their social club. 

 

Has there been an increase in questionable money sources within the league? I would say undoubtable. Do we now have a league where proceeds of crime that cause misery through our communities is now being processed, again I would have to say yes. I don't exclude ourselves from that, there is one or two sponsor (how much they put in I don't know) that we are better avoiding, whether that be because of previous convictions or known business activities. It is a hard one to balance however more needs to be done, that starts with clubs having a back bone and knocking back the sponsors which I dare say is easier said than done. 

 

Are we in a better place than we were prior to the pyramid system. Plenty got said about the "blazers" at the SJFA however you now have a WOS board working to suit their own agendas. 

 

What are the thoughts?

The Talbot team that went into the Covid shut down was flying and would have won any of the post lockdown titles. That will read as arrogant but I'm confident it would stand up.

It's fair to say we've not been as good since the lockdown but we've not been a million miles away from the title either.

The general standard isn't any better or worse imo.

Edited February 28 by Shanner

[rhubarb1974]

7 minutes ago, Shanner said:

The Talbot team that went into the Covid shut down was flying and would have won any of the post lockdown titles. That will read as arrogant but I'm confident it would stand up.

It's fair to say we've not been as good since the lockdown but we've not been a million miles away from the title either.

The general standard isn't any better or worse imo.

I would say if the current Talbot team is considered a work in progress and full of young players and still in title race then standard has fallen, that is nothing against current players however when your fans were worried about relegation etc...the very fact you are still in a chance of the league is a reflection of the drop in standard. 

 

I said before, if Clydebank can't win the league this season, they are in trouble as teams like Talbot are only going to get better and stronger. 

[clansman]

48 minutes ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Since the pyramid was introduced, has the standard of football increased within the league? 

 

I know it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses however does for example the Talbot, Pollok, Kilwinning Rangers, Irvine Meadow etc..team of 5 years ago beat their current team of today? 

 

We aren't a good example as there had obviously been investment in the club that hadn't been there before. 

 

Has attendances increased? I would say on average across the league no due to having teams like St Cadocs and Gartcairn in the league who are virtually unsupported. If you go back 5 years you had other well supported clubs in Kilbirnie, Kilwinning Rangers etc...in the league. 

 

Cup competitions is there much difference other than the licensed clubs now get into the big Scottish. The South Challenge is a non event for me, West of Scotland Cup would be fine however the full Broadwood carry on is a real dampener for me. I personally am glad that the our committee had opted us back into the Scottish, for me without a doubt the biggest non-league cup in Scotland, if teams get the option to play in it I don't know why they wouldn't. It has the biggest prize pot available as well. 

 

I accept in a lot of occasions grounds have improved however their is a rise of "council" type facilities in use which I personally do not like. We've made considerable changes and I don't think anyone will argue. You still have top grounds like Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Talbot etc...however there are now more teams ground sharing and in my opinion sub standard playing facilities such as New Tinto. I have also been a critic of KR for their new pitch, I think a very poorly laid out pitch and viewing points, give me Abbey Park any day however I am old school. 

 

I accept the "modern fans" may like bland 3G parks with no character or history. As much as I don't like Talbot (mainly because they have been the dominant team for years) there is something special about their ground, always immaculate condition, always improving and they still have a social club which not many clubs have now unfortunately.  Irvine Meadow and Pollok similar although Pollok no longer have their social club. 

 

Has there been an increase in questionable money sources within the league? I would say undoubtable. Do we now have a league where proceeds of crime that cause misery through our communities is now being processed, again I would have to say yes. I don't exclude ourselves from that, there is one or two sponsor (how much they put in I don't know) that we are better avoiding, whether that be because of previous convictions or known business activities. It is a hard one to balance however more needs to be done, that starts with clubs having a back bone and knocking back the sponsors which I dare say is easier said than done. 

 

Are we in a better place than we were prior to the pyramid system. Plenty got said about the "blazers" at the SJFA however you now have a WOS board working to suit their own agendas. 

 

What are the thoughts?

Go back to the SJFA then and reconstitute the West Region. 

Anyone who wants to leave can leave and the WSFL can continue with clubs who want to be there. 

[jimbaxters]

11 minutes ago, clansman said:

Go back to the SJFA then and reconstitute the West Region. 

Anyone who wants to leave can leave and the WSFL can continue with clubs who want to be there. 

Chill oot.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Since the pyramid was introduced, has the standard of football increased within the league? 

 

I know it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses however does for example the Talbot, Pollok, Kilwinning Rangers, Irvine Meadow etc..team of 5 years ago beat their current team of today?

You misunderstand the nature of a pyramid system if you think that a Tier 6 division is meant to be improved by it.

Don't think many will look back with rose tinted specs on 2018-19. East exodus, endless pyramid discussions, 1st year of the 16 region wide divisions and the teething problems that come with the transition. Can we go back 10 years when Darvel were a middling Ayrshire District team that didn't have delusions of grandeur?

[rhubarb1974]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You misunderstand the nature of a pyramid system if you think that a Tier 6 division is meant to be improved by it.

Don't think many will look back with rose tinted specs on 2018-19. East exodus, endless pyramid discussions, 1st year of the 16 region wide divisions and the teething problems that come with the transition. Can we go back 10 years when Darvel were a middling Ayrshire District team that didn't have delusions of grandeur?

JG took over pre pyramid for the record, so very much still a Junior side then. I think the ambitions change once the pyramid was introduced however we were already on the way up with help from JG before the introduction of the WOSFL. I also made the point that we weren't a good example to compare now to 5 years ago as due to external investment we are in a different place. I was mainly talking about the established top flight clubs the likes of Pollok, Talbot, KR etc...I am first to admit we are not considered a "big name" at this level although we have been holding our own over the past couple of seasons. 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 hour ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Since the pyramid was introduced, has the standard of football increased within the league? 
Yes, I believe so and I've been to games in the 4 divisions of the WOSFl, two divisions of the EOSFL and the LL, before WOSFL inclusion to the pyramid and now after including up north.

 

I know it is easy to look back with rose tinted glasses however does for example the Talbot, Pollok, Kilwinning Rangers, Irvine Meadow etc..team of 5 years ago beat their current team of today? 
I suppose this is all hypothetical, it can never be answered, just each persons personal viewpoint.

 

We aren't a good example as there had obviously been investment in the club that hadn't been there before. 
If you mean Darvel, yes you are. They have created the biggest Scottish cup shock ever and have stirred interest from outside non league football and if and when the money leaves they have great park and facilities and any division they will be in from now on.

 

Has attendances increased? I would say on average across the league no due to having teams like St Cadocs and Gartcairn in the league who are virtually unsupported. If you go back 5 years you had other well supported clubs in Kilbirnie, Kilwinning Rangers etc...in the league. 
There's always going to be better supported clubs in leagues and divisions than lower supported clubs but the clubs Kilbirnie, Kilwinning etc..  are no longer in the top division for a very good reason, they weren't run that well previously and thus, were relegated but if run better then hopefully they should be back.  In saying that, the low attendance teams like Gartcairn and St Cadocs don't look like being relegated this season so expect they should work on bringing fans in, in any way they can.

 

Cup competitions is there much difference other than the licensed clubs now get into the big Scottish. The South Challenge is a non event for me, West of Scotland Cup would be fine however the full Broadwood carry on is a real dampener for me. I personally am glad that the our committee had opted us back into the Scottish, for me without a doubt the biggest non-league cup in Scotland, if teams get the option to play in it I don't know why they wouldn't. It has the biggest prize pot available as well. 
The main Scottish is the fruit.  Look at the Bens, beaten by Pollok in this years preliminary round and came away with over £4000. If my club was licensed, I would rather they opt out of the SJC to concentrate on the main Scottish Cup.  Regarding the SCC will have to disagree, its a regional tournament and has the biggest amount of clubs playing in it, in any Non League cup in Scotland, and its not run well in regards to advertising.
The SJC has the biggest pot available in non league football, I believe this to be correct but more clubs loose a huge amount of money to them for participating, which is never mentioned.  Past couple of years, some clubs paid out £2700 in 3 games for coaches to Aberdeenshire from Glasgow and only received, I believe £720 towards expenses, this is a huge loss for small clubs in the current climate, so the tournament should address this

 

I accept in a lot of occasions grounds have improved however their is a rise of "council" type facilities in use which I personally do not like. We've made considerable changes and I don't think anyone will argue. You still have top grounds like Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Talbot etc...however there are now more teams ground sharing and in my opinion sub standard playing facilities such as New Tinto. I have also been a critic of KR for their new pitch, I think a very poorly laid out pitch and viewing points, give me Abbey Park any day however I am old school. 
It's the league who accept this, whether we like this or not.  The standard of football doesn't change as all players are used to train on Astro, so they should be good on both. What ever we think of KRs ground or facilities,  I like it, personally, I'm sure they were forced out. Even back when I played against them, the owner was trying to kick them out.  I don't know the full story but was the ground not sold by the owner?.

 

I accept the "modern fans" may like bland 3G parks with no character or history. As much as I don't like Talbot (mainly because they have been the dominant team for years) there is something special about their ground, always immaculate condition, always improving and they still have a social club which not many clubs have now unfortunately.  Irvine Meadow and Pollok similar although Pollok no longer have their social club. 
But this is about the running of the clubs, the committee, the fans etc... is run well, things will go well, if not, some will lose their grounds, their socisl clubs, be in hardship

 

Has there been an increase in questionable money sources within the league? I would say undoubtable. Do we now have a league where proceeds of crime that cause misery through our communities is now being processed, again I would have to say yes. I don't exclude ourselves from that, there is one or two sponsor (how much they put in I don't know) that we are better avoiding, whether that be because of previous convictions or known business activities. It is a hard one to balance however more needs to be done, that starts with clubs having a back bone and knocking back the sponsors which I dare say is easier said than done. 
 I agree whole heartedly with you that clubs stopping this and having a backbone but its happened in the past, 20, 30 years ago and I'm sure it happens today.

 

Are we in a better place than we were prior to the pyramid system. Plenty got said about the "blazers" at the SJFA however you now have a WOS board working to suit their own agendas. 
In a way better place, 100%, I'm over the moon we are in the pyramid, clubs/fans/players/committees can now stay where they are or dream or actually move up beyond our WOSFL, the choice is theirs and no ceiling preventing them, just run well on and off the park and you will reap the benefits 

 

What are the thoughts?

 

Edited February 28 by Bestsinceslicebread

[rhubarb1974]

30 minutes ago, clansman said:

Go back to the SJFA then and reconstitute the West Region. 

Anyone who wants to leave can leave and the WSFL can continue with clubs who want to be there. 

So it makes your chances better of winning something? That seems the Clydebank way. If you can't win something on the park let your board of directors try and bully their way in. 

 

Looking forward to this weekend, I requested the local pubs not to keep glass bottles due to the likelihood of them crashing. That said I am sure we have one eye on the cups we are in as well, we can't just focus on the league. 

[clansman]

5 minutes ago, rhubarb1974 said:

So it makes your chances better of winning something? That seems the Clydebank way. If you can't win something on the park let your board of directors try and bully their way in. 

 

Looking forward to this weekend, I requested the local pubs not to keep glass bottles due to the likelihood of them crashing. That said I am sure we have one eye on the cups we are in as well, we can't just focus on the league. 

Weren't you the one who wanted all the teams who don't own their own grounds, rent from the councils, have artificial surfaces or ground shares excluded. 

That would eliminate Clydebank, Beith, St Cadocs, Cumnock, Benburb, Gartcairn, Kirkintilloch and Largs. 

Clydebank are happy to take on anyone even a resurgent Talbot. We might not win but we will keep plugging away. 

I for one wouldn't see Tommy Sloan tanking a playoff to avoid promotion so might not be a long term problem. 

[rhubarb1974]

6 minutes ago, clansman said:

Weren't you the one who wanted all the teams who don't own their own grounds, rent from the councils, have artificial surfaces or ground shares excluded. 

That would eliminate Clydebank, Beith, St Cadocs, Cumnock, Benburb, Gartcairn, Kirkintilloch and Largs. 

Clydebank are happy to take on anyone even a resurgent Talbot. We might not win but we will keep plugging away. 

I for one wouldn't see Tommy Sloan tanking a playoff to avoid promotion so might not be a long term problem. 

No I wanted groundsharing excluded from this level and above. 

 

Astros I would prefer they weren't played on however never said they should be excluded. 

 

So from that list Clydebank, Bens and KRR shouldn't be able to be licensed imo due to ground sharing. If I was setting rules for league I would ban teams without their own ground from the west prem in order to balance financial fair play. 

 

Without knowing the costs, I am sure we would be in a better place financially like every other club with their own ground if they never had to pay for the up keep/maintenance etc...There are teams in the league with full time grounds staff and contractors in on a regular basis. I personally am glad we have our own ground and happy that the investment went into it.