Obesity

[Shandon Par]

In Edinburgh there are more Aldi & Lidl stores springing up around the less affluent areas and this will hopefully improve access to good food. Many big estates that were geographically isolated would rely on cornershops and takeaways to feed people. Therefore, the cost of eating healthy in years gone by would probably have to factor in a bus or taxi trip to an area with a supermarket. 

[ICTChris]

33 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

In Edinburgh there are more Aldi & Lidl stores springing up around the less affluent areas and this will hopefully improve access to good food. Many big estates that were geographically isolated would rely on cornershops and takeaways to feed people. Therefore, the cost of eating healthy in years gone by would probably have to factor in a bus or taxi trip to an area with a supermarket. 

Aldi and Lidl are both very good developments in food poverty, they sell excellent quality, cheap food.  They also care about their employees health as clearly they have instructed them to get a solid workout in by flinging all your groceries through the checkout at double the speed of sound. 

[ICTChris]

Here's an interesting video about fat

 

[Shandon Par]

24 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Aldi and Lidl are both very good developments in food poverty, they sell excellent quality, cheap food.  They also care about their employees health as clearly they have instructed them to get a solid workout in by flinging all your groceries through the checkout at double the speed of sound. 

There's a strange habit I've developed lately. Done it a few times now and scared the fek out of anyone nearby. Instead of putting the basket on the end of the conveyor and gently placing items on it I've just tipped the basket upside down and launched everything onto the conveyor. Some racket as the tins of Red Bull etc rain down in front of the shocked cashier. It hasn't been planner - just seems to happen. 

[19QOS19]

On the McDonalds discussion: to say folk buy it because it's a cheaper alternative to decent food is complete bollocks. I went there a few weeks back (convenience) and spent £16 on 2 (normal size) meals and a happy meal. It's absolute garbage and it certainly isn't cheap. I buy butcher meat for £50 and it makes 3/4 weeks worth of food. Buying McDonalds/junk food (which I am guilty of at times) is nothing more than laziness.

[throbber]

2 hours ago, ICTChris said:

The ketogenic diet can be effective but as said, it's a way of reducing calories.  Diets like this are effective if you stick to them but it's hard.  Things like sugary drinks, snacks and sweets are ingrained into people's lives and are hard to resist.

Losing weight is hard for humans - it's against our natural physiology to lose weight even if you are overweight.

The keto diet isn’t about reducing calories though it’s about low carb and sugar intake and using fats as your body’s main fuel for energy. Your body doesn’t produce glucose and only stores it for 3 hours in the liver and muscle and once it’s gone then your body then uses stored fats or fats in foods as it’s main energy source. Nobody who does keto will ever claim it’s a diet for reducing calories and I don’t know where you or gaz are getting this from. 

[Gaz]

4 minutes ago, throbber said:

The keto diet isn’t about reducing calories though it’s about low carb and sugar intake and using fats as your body’s main fuel for energy. Your body doesn’t produce glucose and only stores it for 3 hours in the liver and muscle and once it’s gone then your body then uses stored fats or fats in foods as it’s main energy source. Nobody who does keto will ever claim it’s a diet for reducing calories and I don’t know where you or gaz are getting this from. 

This is a thread about obesity, and your comment was that doctors are prescribing keto to combat obesity.

Keto will do f**k all for your body weight if you're still eating 500 calories more than your body needs every day.

[ICTChris]

Just now, throbber said:

The keto diet isn’t about reducing calories though it’s about low carb and sugar intake and using fats as your body’s main fuel for energy. Your body doesn’t produce glucose and only stores it for 3 hours in the liver and muscle and once it’s gone then your body then uses stored fats or fats in foods as it’s main energy source. Nobody who does keto will ever claim it’s a diet for reducing calories and I don’t know where you or gaz are getting this from. 

If you eat 5000 calories a day on an entirely keto diet you will most likely gain weight.  If you eat 1000 calories a day on food entirely from McDonalds you will lose weight.  You won't be particularly healthy in either scenario but that's how weight gain and loss work.

I would say that of all the fad diets you see the ketogenic diet is one of the better ones and it can be effective in helping lose weight or maintain a healthy weight.  It isnt for everyone though.

[Jambomo]

There is no one thing that causes obesity, people are obese and eat badly for a number of reasons that usually come together to form one massive issue that’s hard to get past.

I have been at both ends of the poverty spectrum and fortunately, whilst I am now doing well, I definitely remember a period when I was counting coppers to try and go to the shops with.

I disagree with Monkman in that I do think eating healthily is expensive. One because it’s hard to find loose produce now, and you have to go down the route of buying bags of produce - if I have £5 then I am spending it on the 3 for £5 ready meals and not a bag of carrots, potatoes and a net of onions - that’s not a meal.

it was also the case that I was working split shifts 6 days a week so I’d be home by 1.30pm but away again by 3.30pm. It’s much easier to shove a ready meal in the oven than to stand and prep veg and meat and then cook it. Ready meals were practical choices.

There is a lot of contradictory advice as well. These discussions nearly always get the “you can have a batch of pasta and sauce which is cheap and healthy” type comments which ignore the fact that these are the types of carbs that are considered to be less healthy and eating them every day Is actually very unhealthy.

It’s also the case that poor people are just the same as everyone else. If I can get 3 varied meals for £5 I will, rather than having the same soup or stew for 3 or 4 days that’s going bad after two. It might not be the best health option but it was overall an easier and tastier option.

We basically need ready meals to be healthy.

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Jambomo

[throbber]

Just now, Gaz said:

This is a thread about obesity, and your comment was that doctors are prescribing keto to combat obesity.

Keto will do f**k all for your body weight if you're still eating 500 calories more than your body needs every day.

If you are eating the same amount of calories but switch to keto you will lose weight though. I’m saying it’s not all about calories in calories out like you try to make it out there will still be a recommended calorie count but the entire science behind keto diet is not to do with calories it’s about burning fats as your main fuel source.

[throbber]

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

If you eat 5000 calories a day on an entirely keto diet you will most likely gain weight.  If you eat 1000 calories a day on food entirely from McDonalds you will lose weight.  You won't be particularly healthy in either scenario but that's how weight gain and loss work.

I would say that of all the fad diets you see the ketogenic diet is one of the better ones and it can be effective in helping lose weight or maintain a healthy weight.  It isnt for everyone though.

The thing is on keto you don’t feel compelled to eat 5000 calories so it probably won’t happen, you feel less hungry on it and fill up easier when it’s high protein and high fat. Calories in v calories out still works in most cases but with keto and IF it’s not the only forces at work and the health benefits that go along with each of them go way beyond weight loss.

The keto diet is shit, maybe do it for a month like January or October but you’d need to be a proper w****r to stick at it long term.

[Gaz]

3 minutes ago, throbber said:

If you are eating the same amount of calories but switch to keto you will lose weight though. I’m saying it’s not all about calories in calories out like you try to make it out there will still be a recommended calorie count but the entire science behind keto diet is not to do with calories it’s about burning fats as your main fuel source.

The only thing that matters in terms of your body's weight is the calories you use versus the calories you eat / drink.

That's it.

If someone is currently gaining weight or staying the same weight, switches to keto and eats the same number of calories they were before, they will continue to gain weight or stay the same weight.

I'm not talking about what your body burns as a fuel source, or body composition. This is a thread about obesity. Doing keto will do f**k all for a person being obese if they continue to eat more calories than their body needs.

[D.A.F.C]

On food prep, just eat healthy stuff.
Cook potatoes, eat salad, fruit and veg.
Fresh meat and fish.

That's it.

[coprolite]

29 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

On the McDonalds discussion: to say folk buy it because it's a cheaper alternative to decent food is complete bollocks. I went there a few weeks back (convenience) and spent £16 on 2 (normal size) meals and a happy meal. It's absolute garbage and it certainly isn't cheap. I buy butcher meat for £50 and it makes 3/4 weeks worth of food. Buying McDonalds/junk food (which I am guilty of at times) is nothing more than laziness.
 

No having that. I frequently spend hours making nutritious varied meals from scratch. I buy mcdonalds because the kids nag me until i cave and because it is a wee treat for them. They've made their own burgers before but they don't come with 80% fat fries or a plastic toy so are generally frowned on. 

[throbber]

9 minutes ago, Gaz said:

The only thing that matters in terms of your body's weight is the calories you use versus the calories you eat / drink.

That's it.

If someone is currently gaining weight or staying the same weight, switches to keto and eats the same number of calories they were before, they will continue to gain weight or stay the same weight.

I'm not talking about what your body burns as a fuel source, or body composition. This is a thread about obesity. Doing keto will do f**k all for a person being obese if they continue to eat more calories than their body needs.

You are way off base here. 

[Gaz]

Just now, throbber said:

You are way off base here. 

How so? You're the one who said that keto was being prescribed by doctors for obesity.

I'm simply saying that switching to keto alone will do nothing for obesity unless accompanied by a reduction in calorie balance.

[Gaz]

33 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

On the McDonalds discussion: to say folk buy it because it's a cheaper alternative to decent food is complete bollocks. I went there a few weeks back (convenience) and spent £16 on 2 (normal size) meals and a happy meal. It's absolute garbage and it certainly isn't cheap. I buy butcher meat for £50 and it makes 3/4 weeks worth of food. Buying McDonalds/junk food (which I am guilty of at times) is nothing more than laziness.
 

 

3 minutes ago, coprolite said:

No having that. I frequently spend hours making nutritious varied meals from scratch. I buy mcdonalds because the kids nag me until i cave and because it is a wee treat for them. They've made their own burgers before but they don't come with 80% fat fries or a plastic toy so are generally frowned on. 

You've said it yourself though - you frequently spend 'hours' doing that.

McDonalds is more expensive than healthy food, yes. I don't think anyone's doubting that. But I personally know pupils and their parents who will eat McDonalds three or four times a week because doing so allows their parents to work an extra hour at work (and earn an extra hour's wage) that more than offsets the extra cost of the food. That's what the opportunity cost is all about.

[Comrie]

Its very easy to just sit, eat shite and get fat though.

That's the major issue, it's just so damn easy.

I've dropped 53kg now, but it's been goddamn hard work. Learning to cook properly was seriously helpful with it.

[throbber]

1 minute ago, Gaz said:

How so? You're the one who said that keto was being prescribed by doctors for obesity.

I'm simply saying that switching to keto alone will do nothing for obesity unless accompanied by a reduction in calorie balance.

But if you change your diet to keto then you aren’t going to be consuming the same amount of calories so it’s an irrelevant point. The entire thing about keto is that you feel less hungry when doing it and swapping carbohydrates to high fat and protein foods Isn’t a straight swap either so there’s no guarantee the person will feel inclined to eat the same amount of calories.

Also when you throw alcohol into the equation it’s not just about the calories in the alcohol that make you fat, your liver focus primarily on getting rid of the alcohol first so all fat burning goes on hold until the liver has sorted that out and everything you eat when drinking isn’t digested properly. It’s not all about the calories. 

 

[Gaz]

1 minute ago, throbber said:

But if you change your diet to keto then you aren’t going to be consuming the same amount of calories so it’s an irrelevant point. The entire thing about keto is that you feel less hungry when doing it and swapping carbohydrates to high fat and protein foods Isn’t a straight swap either so there’s no guarantee the person will feel inclined to eat the same amount of calories.

Also when you throw alcohol into the equation it’s not just about the calories in the alcohol that make you fat, your liver focus primarily on getting rid of the alcohol first so all fat burning goes on hold until the liver has sorted that out and everything you eat when drinking isn’t digested properly. It’s not all about the calories. 

 

How is it an irrelevant point?

Keto is, by its very nature, high in fat. There are 9 calories in one gram of fat. It is incredibly easy for someone on keto, who isn't paying attention to their calorific intake, to eat more calories than their body needs.

You're introducing extra variables left, right and centre. Your original point was that doctors are prescribing keto to combat obesity. Keto on its own will do absolutely nothing for obesity unless there is a reduced calorific intake. If someone switches to keto and has exactly the same calorific balance as before they will not lose any weight whatsoever.