Hickey and Hepburn to Bayern

[Marshmallo]

13 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

That really is depressing

Which teenager should have been capped in the interim, and in which game?

[Szamo's_Ammo]

Have you ever seen anything like this in your life!?

Give this boy his own thread.

[DiegoDiego]

Have you ever seen anything like this in your life!?
Give this boy his own thread.

His second touch almost lost the ball.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

24 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

38 minutes ago, Szamo said:

Have you ever seen anything like this in your life!?
Give this boy his own thread.

His second touch almost lost the ball.

Aye that's the idea, that's how you beat a player, you have to show a bit of the ball first so they think they can get it. He was completely in control of that situation.

[DiegoDiego]

Aye that's the idea, that's how you beat a player, you have to show a bit of the ball first so they think they can get it. He was completely in control of that situation.

Sorry, I meant third touch.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

4 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Aye that's the idea, that's how you beat a player, you have to show a bit of the ball first so they think they can get it. He was completely in control of that situation.

Sorry, I meant third touch.

You're just a negative Nancy

[Old Bing]

35 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Have you ever seen anything like this in your life!?

Give this boy his own thread.

Tbh, yeah within my life I've seen someone move the ball to the side and go past a player closing down.

[DiegoDiego]

You're just a negative Nancy

It was a bit negative, aye, but seeing as I posted about that bit of play as a positive further up the thread, I'll allow myself the indulgence.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

5 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Tbh, yeah within my life I've seen someone move the ball to the side and go past a player closing down.

Have you seen an 18 year old Scottish kid playing for Bologna do it?  Naw.

[Old Bing]

Just now, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Have you seen an 18 year old Scottish kid playing for Bologna do it?  Naw.

If your excited by that ill post some clips of me playing 5s. Do that stuff in my sleep.

[HuttonDressedAsLahm]

6 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Which teenager should have been capped in the interim, and in which game?

Ryan Christie was playing for the u21s in 2017.  Also so were:

John Souttar, Ryan Gauld, Liam Henderson, Oliver McBurnie, Scott McKenna, and Alan Campbell.

In 2018 you can add McRorie, Bates, Gilmour, Ferguson etc.

 

Do you know who we called up and/or gave caps to during the same period?  Shinnie, Archer, Cummings, Hanlon, Stevenson, Morgan, Cadden, Hendry, McGeouch, Murphy.

What games you ask?  Perhaps one of the 7 friendlies we played between 09/11/17 and 14/10/18.

 

My point is that we don't give debuts to u21 players who are clearly on the up.  We much prefer to give the same players debuts at age 24/25/26 when their promise has wained.

Don't get me wrong, we're better at this than we have been in the past, but I stand by that more successful nations than us (with poorer player pools) perform better.

 

Wales gave a debut to Ampadu despite having barely played a senior game (he has 15 caps and 14 senior club appearances!), similarly England with Hudson-Odoi and Loftus Cheek (barely a handful of games between them).

Neco Williams played 11 bit part performances for Liverpool last season.  Senior capped by Wales in 2020.

Ben Woodburn has 10 caps for Wales and has 27 senior appearances to date.

 

How old do you think Gilmour will be before we give him a call up?  What about Hornby, Turnbull, or Campbell?  Campbell alone has 100 more senior appearances than Ampadu.

 

The excuse is always that the u21s have important games coming up (hint: the u21s never qualify anyway).  We do not have a conveyor belt of young stars into our squad.  Every few years we glance around and realise that Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, and McGregor are actually pretty decent and have f*ck all caps 

What's the chances Turnbull and Campbell are called up when they are 24/25, and guaranteed to become 30-cap wonders, retiring from international football at 31?

Edited September 30, 2020 by HuttonDressedAsLahm

[Old Bing]

Just now, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

Ryan Christie was playing for the u21s in 2017.  Also so were:

John Souttar, Ryan Gauld, Liam Henderson, Oliver McBurnie, Scott McKenna, and Alan Campbell.

In 2018 you can add McRorie, Bates, Gilmour, Ferguson etc.

 

Do you know who we called up and/or gave caps to during the same period?  Shinnie, Archer, Cummings, Hanlon, Stevenson, Morgan, Cadden, Hendry, McGeouch, Murphy.

What games you ask?  Perhaps one of the 7 friendlies we played between 09/11/17 and 14/10/18.

 

My point is that we don't give debuts to u21 players who are clearly on the up.  We much prefer to give the same players debuts at age 24/25/26 when their promise has wained.

Don't get me wrong, we're better at this than we have been in the past, but I stand by that more successful nations than us (with poorer player pools) perform better.

 

Wales gave a debut to Ampadu despite having barely played a senior game (he has 15 caps and 14 senior club appearances!), similarly England with Hudson-Odoi and Loftus Cheek (barely a handful of games between them).

Neco Williams played 11 bit part performances for Liverpool last season.  Senior capped by Wales in 2020.

Ben Woodburn has 10 caps for Wales and has 27 senior appearances to date.

 

How old do you think Gilmour will be before we give him a call up?  What about Hornby, Turnbull, or Campbell?  Campbell alone has 100 more senior appearances than Ampadu.

 

The excuse is always that the u21s have important games coming up (hint: the u21s never qualify anyway).  We do not have a conveyor belt of young stars into our squad.  Every few years we glance around and realise that Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, and McGregor are actually pretty decent and have f*ck all caps 

What's the chances Turnbull and Campbell are called up when they are 24/25, and guaranteed to become 30-cap wonders, retiring from international football at 31?

Absolutely agree with all of this.

Getting the younger guys in the squad on and off gives them the experience of just being in the squad, even if there not starting games.

They can go from one squad and back to the other, so their getting the experience of both.

The u21s should be there just to provide players for the senior team, as that's all that matters.  Far to much emphasis is put on the results of these u21 games. Meaning we horde players there.

Also we play a horrible outdated kick and rush style in the u21s. Driven purely for the short term results rather than the development of the players.

Seems tho nobody at the sfa can see that Scott gemmills teams are stinking. Or is particularly interested.

[ewan14]

5 hours ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Have you ever seen anything like this in your life!?

Give this boy his own thread.

Already been suggested by someone ( who knows his fitba )

[craigkillie]

Ryan Christie was playing for the u21s in 2017.  Also so were:
John Souttar, Ryan Gauld, Liam Henderson, Oliver McBurnie, Scott McKenna, and Alan Campbell.
In 2018 you can add McRorie, Bates, Gilmour, Ferguson etc.
 
Do you know who we called up and/or gave caps to during the same period?  Shinnie, Archer, Cummings, Hanlon, Stevenson, Morgan, Cadden, Hendry, McGeouch, Murphy.
What games you ask?  Perhaps one of the 7 friendlies we played between 09/11/17 and 14/10/18.
 
My point is that we don't give debuts to u21 players who are clearly on the up.  We much prefer to give the same players debuts at age 24/25/26 when their promise has wained.
Don't get me wrong, we're better at this than we have been in the past, but I stand by that more successful nations than us (with poorer player pools) perform better.
 
Wales gave a debut to Ampadu despite having barely played a senior game (he has 15 caps and 14 senior club appearances!), similarly England with Hudson-Odoi and Loftus Cheek (barely a handful of games between them).
Neco Williams played 11 bit part performances for Liverpool last season.  Senior capped by Wales in 2020.
Ben Woodburn has 10 caps for Wales and has 27 senior appearances to date.
 
How old do you think Gilmour will be before we give him a call up?  What about Hornby, Turnbull, or Campbell?  Campbell alone has 100 more senior appearances than Ampadu.
 
The excuse is always that the u21s have important games coming up (hint: the u21s never qualify anyway).  We do not have a conveyor belt of young stars into our squad.  Every few years we glance around and realise that Christie, McGinn, Armstrong, and McGregor are actually pretty decent and have f*ck all caps 
What's the chances Turnbull and Campbell are called up when they are 24/25, and guaranteed to become 30-cap wonders, retiring from international football at 31?

You're completely moving the goalposts here, the question was about the last teenager to play for Scotland, not the last U21 player. Half the guys you listed in your post were capped by Scotland whilst still eligible for the U21s. Even the senior squad announced yesterday has two members of the current U21s along with six from the previous crop.

Of the ones you listed, they got their first Scotland call-ups and debuts at the following ages:

Souttar: (call-up 21, debut 21)
Gauld (call-up 19)
McBurnie (call-up 21, debut 21)
McKenna (call-up 21, debut 21)
Bates (call-up 22, debut 22)

Using David Bates and Liam Henderson to prove your point sort of explains it all. Bates is kicking about the bottom half of the Belgian league having flopped in the German second tier and Henderson has 15 top flight starts across his entire career.

You've also listed a bunch of central midfielders (Ferguson, Campbell, Turnbull, McCrorie), which is already our position with the most depth. Pretty much every single player called up in that position is either an English Premier League or Old Firm player. Alan Campbell can have all the appearances for Motherwell that he wants, it doesn't make him better than Scott McTominay (himself only 23 and already with 14 caps), John McGinn (debut at 21 whilst playing in the Scottish Championship), Stuart Armstrong or the rest.

I expect Gilmour to be called up at some point in the next year, mainly because he is genuinely good enough already rather than just being called up because he might one day be slightly better than the guys currently in the squad.

It's also a bit weird to list Hendry, Cadden and Morgan as examples of us not capping U21 players given that all of them were U21 players when they got capped.

[ewan14]

3 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Have you seen an 18 year old Scottish kid playing for Bologna do it?  Naw.

on his debut !

[ewan14]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Absolutely agree with all of this.

Getting the younger guys in the squad on and off gives them the experience of just being in the squad, even if there not starting games.

They can go from one squad and back to the other, so their getting the experience of both.

The u21s should be there just to provide players for the senior team, as that's all that matters.  Far to much emphasis is put on the results of these u21 games. Meaning we horde players there.

Also we play a horrible outdated kick and rush style in the u21s. Driven purely for the short term results rather than the development of the players.

Seems tho nobody at the sfa can see that Scott gemmills teams are stinking. Or is particularly interested.

Surely Steve Clarke should sort that out ?

However iirc Strachan and / or McGhee were quoted as saying they had nothing to do with the  u - 21s

which I found shocking 

[John Lambies Doos]

Surely Steve Clarke should sort that out ?
However iirc Strachan and / or McGhee were quoted as saying they had nothing to do with the  u - 21s
which I found shocking 

Absolutely..

[Old Bing]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

 

 

 

You're completely moving the goalposts here, the question was about the last teenager to play for Scotland, not the last U21 player. Half the guys you listed in your post were capped by Scotland whilst still eligible for the U21s. Even the senior squad announced yesterday has two members of the current U21s along with six from the previous crop.

Of the ones you listed, they got their first Scotland call-ups and debuts at the following ages:

Souttar: (call-up 21, debut 21)
Gauld (call-up 19)
McBurnie (call-up 21, debut 21)
McKenna (call-up 21, debut 21)
Bates (call-up 22, debut 22)

Using David Bates and Liam Henderson to prove your point sort of explains it all. Bates is kicking about the bottom half of the Belgian league having flopped in the German second tier and Henderson has 15 top flight starts across his entire career.

You've also listed a bunch of central midfielders (Ferguson, Campbell, Turnbull, McCrorie), which is already our position with the most depth. Pretty much every single player called up in that position is either an English Premier League or Old Firm player. Alan Campbell can have all the appearances for Motherwell that he wants, it doesn't make him better than Scott McTominay (himself only 23 and already with 14 caps), John McGinn (debut at 21 whilst playing in the Scottish Championship), Stuart Armstrong or the rest.

I expect Gilmour to be called up at some point in the next year, mainly because he is genuinely good enough already rather than just being called up because he might one day be slightly better than the guys currently in the squad.

It's also a bit weird to list Hendry, Cadden and Morgan as examples of us not capping U21 players given that all of them were U21 players when they got capped.

 

 

Think his point in that post was to do with younger players getting called up and rotated. 

It doesn't have to relate specifically to some previous post about teenagers.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Think his point in that post was to do with younger players getting called up and rotated. 

It doesn't have to relate specifically to some previous post about teenagers.

His post was a reply to a very specific question about which teenagers should be called up, off the back of a post he made saying it was "depressing" that we hadn't capped a teenager for three years.

[ewan14]

11 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

11 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Aye that's the idea, that's how you beat a player, you have to show a bit of the ball first so they think they can get it. He was completely in control of that situation.

Sorry, I meant third touch.

But you could see him speeding up to get it back under control

with no opponent in sight

Edited September 30, 2020 by ewan14