Scottish Infrastructure

[Ginaro]

On 18/04/2021 at 20:08, ICTChris said:

Not sure it counts as infrastructure as such but the ongoing Spaces For People programme in Edinburgh continues to provoke a lot of opposition. Several of the main roads near me has had a cycle lane and floating parking spaces added and people on local Facebook groups and user groups for local services are universal in their opposition. Personally speaking I think the opposition is completely over the top. People seem to act like the floating parking is actively dangerous and that steering past them is impossible. There are legitimate flaws with the scheme - the bollards used are really ugly and out of place and there are concerns about careers being unable to park near clients houses.

So often when it comes to people’s cars and parking, a minor inconvenience is blown into a major issue.

Technically unless your car is parked up against a wall outside your house, all parking is floating!  Just that normally it's floated on the other side of a pavement rather than a cycle lane.

But if you don't want the cycle lane between the pavement and parking, where else are you going to put it? You can't have it on the other side of the parked cars between someone will inevitably be killed or injured by a car door. Same with floating bus stops - the alternative is buses and bicycles mixing which is not what you want.

Then you have people complaining that there's no cyclists using the lanes, while also saying they are going to get mown down by speeding cyclists when going from their car to the pavement!   

If there wasn't so much opposition to even the slightest changes then councils could try things - with the ugly bollards - to see what works and who knows, it might not be so bad after all.

Oh and if you want over the top opposition to SfP - try the roaster who runs the Boardwalk Beach Club cafe on Facebook, posting deranged rants on location.

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Yeah there is a lot of seethe around this. There are certain bits near me that have been permanently changed for the worse IMO (Braid Rd closed to traffic for the last year causing huge congestion on Comiston Rd, and now being changed to be one way only for example) but some of the stuff I’m seeing online seems way over the top.

Closed to cars you mean, it was open for active travel. Is Braid Road not some sort of a rat run anyway? Surely you want these residential roads to be harder to drive through, as it will encourage people to leave the car at home for short journeys, get on their bike and consider whether their journey is necessary?

[effeffsee_the2nd]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Technically unless your car is parked up against a wall outside your house, all parking is floating!  Just that normally it's floated on the other side of a pavement rather than a cycle lane.

But if you don't want the cycle lane between the pavement and parking, where else are you going to put it? You can't have it on the other side of the parked cars between someone will inevitably be killed or injured by a car door. Same with floating bus stops - the alternative is buses and bicycles mixing which is not what you want.

Then you have people complaining that there's no cyclists using the lanes, while also saying they are going to get mown down by speeding cyclists when going from their car to the pavement!   

If there wasn't so much opposition to even the slightest changes then councils could try things - with the ugly bollards - to see what works and who knows, it might not be so bad after all.

Oh and if you want over the top opposition to SfP - try the roaster who runs the Boardwalk Beach Club cafe on Facebook, posting deranged rants on location.

Closed to cars you mean, it was open for active travel. Is Braid Road not some sort of a rat run anyway? Surely you want these residential roads to be harder to drive through, as it will encourage people to leave the car at home for short journeys, get on their bike and consider whether their journey is necessary?

I saw that c**t on facebook haha what an way to carry on ! all youd needs would be some foreigners and a wind turbine and you'd have gammon kryptonite 

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Oh and if you want over the top opposition to SfP - try the roaster who runs the Boardwalk Beach Club cafe on Facebook, posting deranged rants on location.

He really is a roaster. The cafe is a complete shambles as well, one of the best locations in Edinburgh but a total mess every time I’ve been in.

[Honest_Man#1]

1 hour ago, Ginaro said:

Technically unless your car is parked up against a wall outside your house, all parking is floating!  Just that normally it's floated on the other side of a pavement rather than a cycle lane.

But if you don't want the cycle lane between the pavement and parking, where else are you going to put it? You can't have it on the other side of the parked cars between someone will inevitably be killed or injured by a car door. Same with floating bus stops - the alternative is buses and bicycles mixing which is not what you want.

Then you have people complaining that there's no cyclists using the lanes, while also saying they are going to get mown down by speeding cyclists when going from their car to the pavement!   

If there wasn't so much opposition to even the slightest changes then councils could try things - with the ugly bollards - to see what works and who knows, it might not be so bad after all.

Oh and if you want over the top opposition to SfP - try the roaster who runs the Boardwalk Beach Club cafe on Facebook, posting deranged rants on location.

Closed to cars you mean, it was open for active travel. Is Braid Road not some sort of a rat run anyway? Surely you want these residential roads to be harder to drive through, as it will encourage people to leave the car at home for short journeys, get on their bike and consider whether their journey is necessary?

Yes closed to cars. It creates congestion on Comiston Rd meaning that it’s now regularly queued right back onto Morningside Rd which is a massive pain in the arse as I need to leave a fair bit earlier if going that way as there is literally no alternative. It’s a petty minor complaint though, I’m generally not bothered by SfP.

[gannonball]

This is fast becoming one of my favourite threads on PnB.

[GordonS]

On 18/04/2021 at 20:08, ICTChris said:

Not sure it counts as infrastructure as such but the ongoing Spaces For People programme in Edinburgh continues to provoke a lot of opposition. Several of the main roads near me has had a cycle lane and floating parking spaces added and people on local Facebook groups and user groups for local services are universal in their opposition. Personally speaking I think the opposition is completely over the top. People seem to act like the floating parking is actively dangerous and that steering past them is impossible. There are legitimate flaws with the scheme - the bollards used are really ugly and out of place and there are concerns about careers being unable to park near clients houses.

So often when it comes to people’s cars and parking, a minor inconvenience is blown into a major issue.

I'm not sure facebook is representative really, especially the local pages. They seems to be jammed full of roasters.

The orange cones and wands are ugly but they're temporary, to see what works. The black wands will need to be semi-permanent though, especially on the roads where there's not really enough space for proper segregated lanes. Personally I like them, I don't find them any uglier than lampposts or cable boxes.

The 'carers will have walk for 60 seconds from their car' argument does nothing for me. They have old and disabled people in the Netherlands and they seem to manage fine. Maybe in 20 years time we'll be like the Netherlands and carers will be doing their rounds on ebikes too.

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Closed to cars you mean, it was open for active travel. Is Braid Road not some sort of a rat run anyway? Surely you want these residential roads to be harder to drive through, as it will encourage people to leave the car at home for short journeys, get on their bike and consider whether their journey is necessary?

There's a perfectly good main road running parallel to Braid Rd. It made obvious sense to have one of the roads for cars and the other for bikes, but the car people can't bear to have anything taken away from them. I'm waiting for them to argue for driving up the aisles in supermarkets. 

[Honest_Man#1]

8 hours ago, GordonS said:

I'm not sure facebook is representative really, especially the local pages. They seems to be jammed full of roasters.

The orange cones and wands are ugly but they're temporary, to see what works. The black wands will need to be semi-permanent though, especially on the roads where there's not really enough space for proper segregated lanes. Personally I like them, I don't find them any uglier than lampposts or cable boxes.

The 'carers will have walk for 60 seconds from their car' argument does nothing for me. They have old and disabled people in the Netherlands and they seem to manage fine. Maybe in 20 years time we'll be like the Netherlands and carers will be doing their rounds on ebikes too.

There's a perfectly good main road running parallel to Braid Rd. It made obvious sense to have one of the roads for cars and the other for bikes, but the car people can't bear to have anything taken away from them. I'm waiting for them to argue for driving up the aisles in supermarkets. 

A perfectly good road that’s now permanently queued (often right back onto Morningside Rd) and causes massive delays to journeys in and out of the city.  

[TheScarf]

Yet again, Inverness is building about 2 million houses a month, but no new roads or bridges to cope with the additional traffic.  Once Covid has fucked off, the area around Drumossie/Inshes will be chaos.  More than it already is.

Also, a whole new bunch now getting built in Culloden too, both across from the high school and down next to the A96.  

[effeffsee_the2nd]

9 hours ago, GordonS said:

I'm not sure facebook is representative really, especially the local pages. They seems to be jammed full of roasters.

The orange cones and wands are ugly but they're temporary, to see what works. The black wands will need to be semi-permanent though, especially on the roads where there's not really enough space for proper segregated lanes. Personally I like them, I don't find them any uglier than lampposts or cable boxes.

The 'carers will have walk for 60 seconds from their car' argument does nothing for me. They have old and disabled people in the Netherlands and they seem to manage fine. Maybe in 20 years time we'll be like the Netherlands and carers will be doing their rounds on ebikes too.

There's a perfectly good main road running parallel to Braid Rd. It made obvious sense to have one of the roads for cars and the other for bikes, but the car people can't bear to have anything taken away from them. I'm waiting for them to argue for driving up the aisles in supermarkets. 

c***s like this really do my nut in, and I include my Mrs in that !  she will drive into an otherwise empty car park then try to sandwich the car in a space between 2 LWB  transit pick ups just to get a close to the door as possible.  once it took her forever to try and squeeze the car in and I just let out a big sigh followed by FFS just walk the extra 10 yards this is ridiculous! she wasn't happy . she's definitely not the only one but I can't understand it.   Some people really boak at having to walk the length of themselves

Edited April 22, 2021 by effeffsee_the2nd

[Honest_Man#1]

1 hour ago, Pato said:

perhaps that's a signal you should use other modes of transport for some journeys?

Would probably be an inconvenience cycling to Glasgow/Ayrshire tbh, and the more local journeys I use that route are for golfing, so cycling with clubs on my back isn’t really feasible.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

c***s like this really do my nut in, and I include my Mrs in that !  she will drive into an otherwise empty car park then try to sandwich the car in a space between 2 LWB  transit pick ups just to get a close to the door as possible.  once it took her forever to try and squeeze the car in and I just let out a big sigh followed by FFS just walk the extra 10 yards this is ridiculous! she wasn't happy . she's definitely not the only one but I can't understand it.   Some people really boak at having to walk the length of themselves

It’s s like the outrage when it turned out that the tram didn’t actually run straight into the departure hall at Edinburgh airport

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

SfP has the Inverness FB morons raging as well. They were raging for months about the temporary plastic bollards looking like a red and white go kart track, they are now moaning that the concrete replacements blend in too well to be seen at night. All with the usual seething about how bikes should be banned from the road because cyclists don't pay 'road tax'.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

14 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

 

It’s s like the outrage when it turned out that the tram didn’t actually run straight into the departure hall at Edinburgh airport

 

The street that I live in is narrow with 19th century Victorian houses , obviously built in the days before cars, there are no driveways and street parking is limited. yet the rage some of the neighbours have when they can't park in "their" space ie right outside their own front door is unbelievable . it's not like they didn't know that when they moved in! fucking walk you lazy c***s haha

[effeffsee_the2nd]

1 minute ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

SfP has the Inverness FB morons raging as well. They were raging for months about the temporary plastic bollards looking like a red and white go kart track, they are now moaning that the concrete replacements blend in too well to be seen at night. All with the usual seething about how bikes should be banned from the road because cyclists don't pay 'road tax'.

what's especially delicious is that I have a bike and a car , a band "A"1.6 diese (which will almost certainly have a chip I the EMC) registered before the 2017 cut off which I pay zero VED on , the seeth when you tell the gamons this is fan fucking tastic

[G51]

1 hour ago, TheScarf said:

Yet again, Inverness is building about 2 million houses a month, but no new roads or bridges to cope with the additional traffic.  Once Covid has fucked off, the area around Drumossie/Inshes will be chaos.  More than it already is.

Also, a whole new bunch now getting built in Culloden too, both across from the high school and down next to the A96.  

Aye. See if you're coming from Nairn and heading for Raigmore (or somewhere near it) during rush hour, the traffic is abysmally bad.

The sneck is becoming a modern city, but it still has the infrastructure and feel of a big town.

[TheScarf]

5 minutes ago, G51 said:

Aye. See if you're coming from Nairn and heading for Raigmore (or somewhere near it) during rush hour, the traffic is abysmally bad.

The sneck is becoming a modern city, but it still has the infrastructure and feel of a big town.

There's far too many single carriageway roads here that should be duels.  Even in the centre.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

A perfectly good road that’s now permanently queued (often right back onto Morningside Rd) and causes massive delays to journeys in and out of the city.  

Throttling the rate of influx of southern suburbanites into EH3 down to a manageable level sounds like a great idea from my inner city perspective.


 

Edited April 22, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Honest_Man#1]

9 minutes ago, Pato said:

You'd best move house then. The last 30 years of Edinburgh's urban planning has been in one direction, you either ride with or collide with it.

Nah, you’re alright. As I said a few times it’s a minor inconvenience and I just leave a bit earlier.

[GordonS]

29 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

There's far too many single carriageway roads here that should be duels.  Even in the centre.

That's a recipe for building a shit city. It seems to me that Highland Council are trying to build East Kilbride on the Moray Firth.

The problem has been going on for years - building sprawling reservations of cul-de-sacs that are a long way form the town centre and with little or no local services, and allowing shops to congregate in only a couple of areas. Those cul-de-sacs are impossible to effectively serve with fast public transport, there's no cycling infrastructure, paths are circuitous and journey times on foot and bike are too long.

Building for cars is luddite stuff now. Those days are gone, and Highland Council have stupidly burdened themselves with a town that will be very hard to fix. What they need to be doing is creating 15 minute neighbourhoods, but they've fkd themselves in so many ways. 

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20201214-how-15-minute-cities-will-change-the-way-we-socialise 

[DiegoDiego]

I was having a look at that part of Inverness on Google maps the other day (sadly my furlough is coming to an end soon and I will no longer have time for such inanities). Why would you choose to live there? You've a Scotmid, a primary school and that's it, maybe a take away. Buying a house in such an area just seems madness to me.