Lowland Trapdoorwatch 2020-21

[Deanburn Dave]

I was hoping to read a wee bit more detail on the suggestion that the WoSFL and SoSFL could merge.

Fantasy stuff IMO as neither West or South would accept the steps required for this to happen i.e. SoSFL teams possibly losing tier 6 status, another season of conferences, restructuring of the pyramid etc etc....

With all the conflicting interests involved this is not easily fixed.

[FairWeatherFan]

27 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

If the East can go as far South as Hawick and Berwick then no reason the West can't go as far South as Gretna but how would you merge the SoSFL and WoSFL ?

The SoSFL I think would have a big say on the matter.

Yer right though it aint happening anytime soon. 

If you give all 3 league champions an automatic promotion spot it would be hard for any of them to say no, since it's a net gain.

Within the LL that might sway a Gretna 08 & Dalbeattie to say yes since they could yo-yo. Just need to get 7/14 other votes to gain a majority for it to actually pass.

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, newcastle broon said:

If the East can go as far South as Hawick and Berwick then no reason the West can't go as far South as Gretna but how would you merge the SoSFL and WoSFL ?

The SoSFL I think would have a big say on the matter.

Yer right though it aint happening anytime soon. 

There's multiple ways to do it but essentially the best way is whatever way the clubs in the SoSFL region want to do it. The SoSFL could merge fully into the WoSFL or could sit as a a southern feeder into tier 6 or even tier 7 of the WoSFL.

Splitting the WoSFL below the Premier into a North and South would make the most sense to me. Clubs in the SoSFL who have no desire to play outside of D&G would never have to and the more ambitious clubs in the South would have somewhere to play between the LL and the SoSFL, rather than potentially being trapped in the SoSFL after relegation from the LL.

But, ultimately, the SoSFL has absolutely no business being at tier 6 when there's no compelling geographical reason for it (like the NCL in the North). For clubs who just want to compete in the SoSFL, it would make no difference what tier they play at. For the rest, it'll ultimately better if the SoSFL actually sits at a position that better represents it's strength relative to the rest of the Lowland pyramid.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Gordon EF

[Deanburn Dave]

If you give all 3 league champions an automatic promotion spot it would be hard for any of them to say no, since it's a net gain.
Within the LL that might sway a Gretna 08 & Dalbeattie to say yes since they could yo-yo. Just need to get 7/14 other votes to gain a majority for it to actually pass.

Can you clarify who is "them" ?

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Deanburn Dave said:

 

 

Can you clarify who is "them" ?

WoSFL, EoSFL, SoSFL.

[Deanburn Dave]

WoSFL, EoSFL, SoSFL.

As the LL have to say Yes to get any change between tier 5 and 6 the views of the 3 tier 6 leagues are effectively irrelevant.

For the avoidance of doubt I favour 3 up from tier 6 .....just not automatically the SoSFL champions.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Deanburn Dave said:

As the LL have to say Yes to get any change between tier 5 and 6 the views of the 3 tier 6 leagues are effectively irrelevant.

For the avoidance of doubt I favour 3 up from tier 6 .....just not automatically the SoSFL champions.

And the stance of the Lowland League club is explained in the full quote. Giving all 3 leagues automatic promotion spots could see the likes of Gretna 08 & Dalbeattie vote for it since they won't be as likely stuck in the SoSFL. It's then a case of getting another 7/14.

The Tier 6 leagues being effectively irrelevant isn't actually reflected in practice since it was largely the EoSFL that upheld LL Playoff changes during the PWG discussions.

[Marshmallo]

1 hour ago, Deanburn Dave said:

I was hoping to read a wee bit more detail on the suggestion that the WoSFL and SoSFL could merge.

Fantasy stuff IMO as neither West or South would accept the steps required for this to happen i.e. SoSFL teams possibly losing tier 6 status, another season of conferences, restructuring of the pyramid etc etc....

With all the conflicting interests involved this is not easily fixed.
 

I agree tbf, it's a mess unless the SoS agrees to take steps down of its own volition.

The time to integrate those leagues was probably at the point of the West Juniors moving into the pyramid.

[Dev]

42 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

And the stance of the Lowland League club is explained in the full quote. Giving all 3 leagues automatic promotion spots could see the likes of Gretna 08 & Dalbeattie vote for it since they won't be as likely stuck in the SoSFL. It's then a case of getting another 7/14.

The Tier 6 leagues being effectively irrelevant isn't actually reflected in practice since it was largely the EoSFL that upheld LL Playoff changes during the PWG discussions.

The idea of giving everyone a piece of cake could work.

Apply the same idea to the SPFL2 with two clubs down but both LL and HL champions promoted automatically each season (subject to licence). Suddenly there's the final step in place for a working pyramid down to WoS/EoS/SoS levels.

[AlanCamelonfan]

44 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

And the stance of the Lowland League club is explained in the full quote. Giving all 3 leagues automatic promotion spots could see the likes of Gretna 08 & Dalbeattie vote for it since they won't be as likely stuck in the SoSFL. It's then a case of getting another 7/14.

The Tier 6 leagues being effectively irrelevant isn't actually reflected in practice since it was largely the EoSFL that upheld LL Playoff changes during the PWG discussions.

but what happens until they get relegated you then have the prospect of teams trying to throw the league like wigtown did a few years back to avoid going up because Lothian Thistle and Leith Athletic weren't licensed.

 

For whatever reason they all hate the idea of Lowland League 2 but it would quickly get rid of worrying about the sosfl as it would drop down a level. Ok i means Tier 6 would become licensed but seeing as how most of the top clubs in the east and the ones in the west are following suit it would solve a lot of problems. If you don't want to travel that geography at tier 6 what is going to want you to do it at tier 5.

[AlanCamelonfan]

Just now, Dev said:

The idea of giving everyone a piece of cake could work.

Apply the same idea to the SPFL2 with two clubs down but both LL and HL champions promoted automatically each season (subject to licence). Suddenly there's the final step in place for a working pyramid down to WoS/EoS/SoS levels.

You have the problems that a lot of Highland teams wouldn't want to go up. What you are better with is automatic relegation but the winners of Highland and Lowland playoff goes up

[Dev]

1 minute ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

but what happens until they get relegated you then have the prospect of teams trying to throw the league like wigtown did a few years back to avoid going up because Lothian Thistle and Leith Athletic weren't licensed.

 

For whatever reason they all hate the idea of Lowland League 2 but it would quickly get rid of worrying about the sosfl as it would drop down a level. Ok i means Tier 6 would become licensed but seeing as how most of the top clubs in the east and the ones in the west are following suit it would solve a lot of problems. If you don't want to travel that geography at tier 6 what is going to want you to do it at tier 5.

but the SoS isn't really the problem as most clubs there won't be going up for more than a single season.

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, Dev said:

but the SoS isn't really the problem as most clubs there won't be going up for more than a single season.

its that single season that they don't want. Everyone on here needs to get real and stop with what fulfils their fantasy. Realistically the South of Scotland has to drop down somehow. But if it drops down in current structure it needs to feed somewhere.

 

[FairWeatherFan]

3 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

but what happens until they get relegated you then have the prospect of teams trying to throw the league like wigtown did a few years back to avoid going up because Lothian Thistle and Leith Athletic weren't licensed.

With 3 going down from the LL. You're not likely to have many SoS sides in the LL at any one time that the SoSFL would be deprived of sides interested in a title challenge.

[LowerLeagueFC]

6 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

its that single season that they don't want. Everyone on here needs to get real and stop with what fulfils their fantasy. Realistically the South of Scotland has to drop down somehow. But if it drops down in current structure it needs to feed somewhere.

 

camelon would fancy a pop at south of scotland, might actually win a few games

[AlanCamelonfan]

1 minute ago, LowerLeagueFC said:

camelon would fancy a pop at south of scotland, might actually win a few games

Don't be stupid

[AlanCamelonfan]

6 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

With 3 going down from the LL. You're not likely to have many SoS sides in the LL at any one time that the SoSFL would be deprived of sides interested in a title challenge.

if one was to automatically go up though you would always have one coming up and down. It doesn't work. We have to be realistic. PLaying off where 2 out of the 3 champions going up is a lot better than a farce where teams are losing so stranraer reserves would win the league to stop teams going up.

[FairWeatherFan]

18 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

if one was to automatically go up though you would always have one coming up and down. It doesn't work. We have to be realistic. PLaying off where 2 out of the 3 champions going up is a lot better than a farce where teams are losing so stranraer reserves would win the league to stop teams going up.

I'd take the existing playoff with 2 up in a typical season and a 3rd promoted in this potential Elgin/Bonnyrigg scenario.

The point about 3 going up is about trying to win the 9 votes within the Lowland League to make any change happen. All the more convoluted ways to get 3 involve diminishing the SoSFL rather than treating it as an equal as it has been throughout all LL Playoff discussions.

[kevsmart]

If the HL champion is Fraserburgh, I think Bonnyrigg might struggle. 

[Ginaro]

2 minutes ago, kevsmart said:

If the HL champion is Fraserburgh, I think Bonnyrigg might struggle. 

Hopefully Cowdenbeath or Albion Rovers are club 42 in that case if the HL team wins the pyramid play-off, would be good to see two clubs going down from the LL to freshen things up.