Israel v Scotland - 18 / 11 / 2020

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Allan McRae of Cove Rangers who was SFA President at the time. Helped organise McLeish's testimonial at Aberdeen.

Sums it up that our game is run by wallopers from Cove Rangers.  See someone like Peter Lawell, absolute snake and disgusting human being, but he's fuckin competent.  Good at what he does.  We need people like that not diddies from Cove Rangers, my mum could do a better job.

[G51]

29 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

I'm not arguing that Griffiths was good either, but what contribution to McBurnie make that allows anyone to claim he offered more than anyone else?

He played in all three games and contributed absolutely f**k all. A complete waste of skin.

McBurnie's contribution in the first half of the game on Sunday was good. He missed some chances but he was one of the reasons we dominated in that half. He fell away when we lost structure.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

19 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Unfortunately there are 3 games in 1 week (and 1 day) at the Euros, and 3 games in 1 week in March + September for first 60% of WC 2022 qualifying, so we really need to get a handle on it.

I suppose the difference in both those is everyone will be in the same boat.

Israel played us last night having had one game when we'd had 210 minutes plus penalties.  

We were one of few teams who had 3 competitive games on the bounce both times round this autumn, andvthe first time we won all 3

[DA Baracus]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

Was it ever established if McLeish was indeed drunk during live interviews or was it something medical?  I remember there was a debate on here about it.

He appeared on Goals on Sunday a few months before he was re-hired as Scotland boss and he was slurring his words.  And in a few press conferences as Scotland boss he seemed half a step slow when speaking.

He wasn't drunk and the horrible rumours about it were disgraceful.

I also think the whole thing was massively overstated, as if he was stumbling around pished and slurring every word.

A very insidious episode that a lot of folk should be pretty ashamed about.

It was right he got punted mind. He was absolutely toilet in his second go as national team manager. He should have been sacked after the Kazakhstan game.

[DAFC.]

They are getting away from any heavy criticism obviously because of the Euro heroics. 

I'm not going to go on about the last two games, as it has been said enough about the performances, but I guarantee we rue these two games when we inevitably fail in our 2022 qualifying group.

We must be the only team Israel play well against, as they are always in the doldrums of the pot system. I really, really hope we do not draw them for the 2022 qualifiers. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by DAFC.

[G51]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Driver said:

It really really wasn't.   He ran in straight lines, created absolutely nothing, held the ball up terribly, and squandered the chances that were created FOR him.   

Critics of McBurnie were repeatedly told that we weren't playing to his strengths so in the 2nd half he was partnered up in a 2, and we bombarded their box with cross balls from the likes of Tierney and Christie.   Yet, McBurnie, as he's done in every single one of his caps looked like a prize-winner who's won the chance to play with professional footballers.  

We've had some really poor strikers:  Kyle, Dobie, McNulty, Brophy all spring to mind but McBurnie is easy the worst played to play for Scotland.   That's him on to 15 caps, 0 goals, 0 assists.  

This is not McBurnie's strength and any Sheffield Utd fan would tell you that.

McBurnie's strength is progressing the ball from the halfway line to the opponents 18 yard box. That's what he does and it's what we asked him to do in the first half on Sunday. He did it well. Go and watch it back and count how many times he's involved in doing that.

Folk see a striker bigger than 6'2 and assume that he's just there to thump long balls into. That's what we have Lyndon Dykes for. If you play direct to McBurnie, he won't hold it up, he'll play a pass or a flick first time to a runner and then immediately move to make himself available for the return. Dykes on the other hand holds the ball for two or three seconds then lays it off to someone else.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 minutes ago, Andrew Driver said:

It really really wasn't.   He ran in straight lines, created absolutely nothing, held the ball up terribly, and squandered the chances that were created FOR him.   

Critics of McBurnie were repeatedly told that we weren't playing to his strengths so in the 2nd half he was partnered up in a 2, and we bombarded their box with cross balls from the likes of Tierney and Christie.   Yet, McBurnie, as he's done in every single one of his caps looked like a prize-winner who's won the chance to play with professional footballers.  

We've had some really poor strikers:  Kyle, Dobie, McNulty, Brophy all spring to mind but McBurnie is easy the worst played to play for Scotland.   That's him on to 15 caps, 0 goals, 0 assists.  

Tbf to McBurnie, minutes wise he's played 8 full games, in bits and pieces, for a team often struggling and not creating much.  And he's hit the woodwork three times.  Stats can be twisted any way you want, if you frame it that way its not that bad.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

14 minutes ago, Andrew Driver said:

It really really wasn't.   He ran in straight lines, created absolutely nothing, held the ball up terribly, and squandered the chances that were created FOR him.   

Critics of McBurnie were repeatedly told that we weren't playing to his strengths so in the 2nd half he was partnered up in a 2, and we bombarded their box with cross balls from the likes of Tierney and Christie.   Yet, McBurnie, as he's done in every single one of his caps looked like a prize-winner who's won the chance to play with professional footballers.  

We've had some really poor strikers:  Kyle, Dobie, McNulty, Brophy all spring to mind but McBurnie is easy the worst played to play for Scotland.   That's him on to 15 caps, 0 goals, 0 assists.  

The last paragraph is absolute drivel.  I saw fucking Andy Gray and Mark McNulty get games for us

[Scary Bear]

30 minutes ago, DAFC. said:

They are getting away from any heavy criticism obviously because of the Euro heroics. 

I'm not going to go on about the last two games, as it has been said enough about the performances, but I guarantee we rue these two games when we inevitably fail in our 2022 qualifying group.

We must be the only team Israel play well against, as they are always in the doldrums of the pot system. I really, really hope we do not draw them for the 2022 qualifiers. 

They seem to have done okay at home recently.

[DukDukGoose]

21 minutes ago, G51 said:

This is not McBurnie's strength and any Sheffield Utd fan would tell you that.

McBurnie's strength is progressing the ball from the halfway line to the opponents 18 yard box. That's what he does and it's what we asked him to do in the first half on Sunday. He did it well. Go and watch it back and count how many times he's involved in doing that.

Folk see a striker bigger than 6'2 and assume that he's just there to thump long balls into. That's what we have Lyndon Dykes for. If you play direct to McBurnie, he won't hold it up, he'll play a pass or a flick first time to a runner and then immediately move to make himself available for the return. Dykes on the other hand holds the ball for two or three seconds then lays it off to someone else.

McBurnie is not good enough for us to.play yo his strengths at the expense of the rest of the team though.

[G51]

12 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

McBurnie is not good enough for us to.play yo his strengths at the expense of the rest of the team though.

We don't have any alternative. All of our strikers are limited. We do not have a striker that we can just slot in and play however we want and still get change out of him. Even Dykes still needs the formation tweaked for him - a Dykes without a Fraser or Christie beside him is useless, after all.

McBurnie's ceiling and floor are much higher than any potential replacements for him, and the change in style between him and Dykes is one that we can live with.

[G51]

Just now, Andrew Driver said:

Oh I watched the game twice I don't need to see it again.    I've watched every minute of his 15 games for the A team.   I also try and attend every 21's match so I've seen him play for Scotland about 30 times in total.   Would I would say about the first 20 mins on Sat about McBurnie was that's the first time I thought his work rate was acceptable, and that was needed to complete the McGinn Christie press which won the ball back again.   

I believe the player rating are a bit too generous for McBurnie but the BBC player rating gets the player ranking fairly correct.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54950768

I've no idea what you're watching then. Chris Wilder, a great manager whos team is literally built on his players running longer, harder and faster than everyone else, didn't buy a guy for £20m who doesn't have a good work rate. Whatever you want to level at McBurnie, there's absolutely no way you can question how hard he works.

[DukDukGoose]

11 minutes ago, G51 said:

We don't have any alternative. All of our strikers are limited. We do not have a striker that we can just slot in and play however we want and still get change out of him. Even Dykes still needs the formation tweaked for him - a Dykes without a Fraser or Christie beside him is useless, after all.

McBurnie's ceiling and floor are much higher than any potential replacements for him, and the change in style between him and Dykes is one that we can live with.

The alternative is he works his arse off to fit the system or we go with someone else. The rest of the team works very well together.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Harry Souttar would have been a colossus up front for us.  Just shell everything at him, stick two defenders on top of each other they're still winning f**k all in the air.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

The alternative is he works his arse off to fit the system or we go with someone else. The rest of the team works very well together.

It's not a case of "working your arse off" though. You can either do what Dykes does or you can't, it's not a question of effort. It's a question of skill and ability. Dykes does things McBurnie can't, and McBurnie does things Dykes can't. It's the job of a coach to make adjustments to get the most out of the 11 players he puts out there. Clarke is good at that, and the change between Dykes and McBurnie is acceptable because both need the same type of player beside them - guys who run from midfield to attack.

It's international football, baby! You have to make the best of what you've got. And we don't have another striker that is a) as good as either of them, or b) anywhere close to a system fit.

 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Realistically I'm not a big fan of any of our options after Dykes.  Need to unearth another, Hornby possible but he needs a while and lots of games.  Should definitely go after Che Adams again.  Nisbett could be worth a punt, got the right attributes.  McBurnie will come good but can't rely on him just now.

[John Lambies Doos]

This is not McBurnie's strength and any Sheffield Utd fan would tell you that.
McBurnie's strength is progressing the ball from the halfway line to the opponents 18 yard box. That's what he does and it's what we asked him to do in the first half on Sunday. He did it well. Go and watch it back and count how many times he's involved in doing that.
Folk see a striker bigger than 6'2 and assume that he's just there to thump long balls into. That's what we have Lyndon Dykes for. If you play direct to McBurnie, he won't hold it up, he'll play a pass or a flick first time to a runner and then immediately move to make himself available for the return. Dykes on the other hand holds the ball for two or three seconds then lays it off to someone else.

Yeh he's doing brilliantly for Sheffield Utd. Phenomenal strike rate for a forward [emoji848]

[DanMc99]

15 hours ago, Ro Sham Bo said:

It's obvious that thus far he's been a lucky manager rather than a good manager for Scotland. If he'd lost either penalty shoot out he'd be under serious pressure right now. 

He's not the answer. 

right so lets sack him , who do you bring in?

[McGuigan1978]

As much as the last couple of results have scunnered me, we probably got what we deserved from this group in all honesty.

In any qualifying campaign, you more or less need to average about four points per opponent, so 12 points would have taken us up from this one.

As soon as we dropped two points at home to Israel though, you’re suddenly needing to make them up elsewhere, and for a team that generally doesn’t win away from home, winning two out of three was always going to be an uphill struggle.

We rode our luck in some of our own games, but we couldn’t call in any favours from Slovakia or Israel against the Czechs, so fair play to them, they deserved to win the group.

As much as the two 1-0 defeats felt wearily familiar, you could easily argue, depending on whether or not you’re a glass half full kinda person, that there’s a glimmer of hope around them.

For a long, long time now, we’ve lost away games because we’ve been a clear second best, getting penned in for long spells and losing pretty convincingly to teams that aren’t any great shakes themselves.

Neither of those two games followed that pattern though, in fact, if we’d had an actual goal scorer in the side, I suspect we’d have taken three or four points from the two. Finding that goal scorer is easier said than done though.

That said, who’d have thought the solution to the central defence issue would be to play fewer of them, so maybe Clarke has an unorthodox solution to the issue up front as well?

[John Lambies Doos]

right so lets sack him , who do you bring in?

McLeish 3.0