*** slayers v St Johnstone 19/12/20

[IrishBhoy]

Just seen the St Johnstone red card for the first time on the highlights as I missed it during the game. That’s incredibly harsh imo. It’s a strong yellow, but I would be feeling very very hard done to had that gone against my team. 

[GAD]

For the red I thought he pretty much ended up getting sent off for what he was trying to do, rather than what he actually did. He launched himself, high, off the ground, wildly out of control, and nowhere near the ball. If he'd caught Durmus the way he intended to it would have been a shocker.

Thing is he was so late and out of control he ended up mostly missing Durmus and dragging him down with his arm instead. Does he deserve a red for the intent? I don't know. I think if he'd given a yellow instead most wouldn't have complained too much.

Edited December 20, 2020 by GAD

[Coventry Saint]

As I said at the time, he was also astonishingly late, and he also stopped Durmus from attacking.

You can perm a red card any number of ways from that selection.

Edited December 20, 2020 by Coventry Saint

[AllyM]

10 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

It's teuchter, but these Paisley types are particularly ill-educated.

It's "w-a-n-k-e-r" but Div's got an autocorrect on.

[FTOF]

4 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

As I said at the time, he was also astonishingly late, and he also stopped Durmus from attacking.

You can perm a red card any number of ways from that selection.

The relatively low lack of contact, because Durmus saw it coming,  made the tackle look less worse than it was.

The tackle met the criteria, as detailed above, for a red card. Is it worth appealing? Not based on that description. But happily, it's not something we need to give a flying fuck about, for a change.

Glad it wasn't Collum refereeing, or he'd probably have awarded a foul against us for Durmus jumping too high or something like that.

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

I would be feeling very very hard done to had that gone against my team. 

Refs get things wrong, you can get players harshly sent off sometimes. 

Kerr lunging in that aggressively gives him a choice to make, and Collum/MacLean love giving controversial decisions, so were always likely to say it was a red.

More disappointed in Kerr.

[NorthBank]

Any tackle with 2 feet off the ground is deemed red these days. Players know this but sometimes stupidly do it.

[Coventry Saint]

41 minutes ago, NorthBank said:

Any tackle with 2 feet off the ground is deemed red these days. Players know this but sometimes stupidly do it.

What I found most surprising was the Fakes lad who went in on Cammy with both feet towards the end, too. We've had players sent off for less this season.

[PauloPerth]

8 hours ago, flyingscot said:

I don’t think the keeper can be blamed. Maybe can do better at the 2nd but need a helluva keeper to save the 1st and 3rd. 

Actually can see why it’s a red we’ve had similar soft ones. 15 years ago you’d be fine but the way the game is now, that kind of thing is a red. 

Agree.  None of them were goalkeeping howlers, poor defending mostly.

Think it's a bit sad that one mis-timed challenge by a defender is a straight red, but that's the way it's gone recently. Stupid by Kerr.

[Valentino Bolognese]

8 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

What I found most surprising was the Fakes lad who went in on Cammy with both feet towards the end, too. We've had players sent off for less this season.

Hendry. That was worse than the Kerr tackle and couldn't have complained if it was a red, I agree. 

I just can't be convinced that Kerr's was a red but at the same time he gave the ref the excuse, nobody to blame except himself. 

Changed the game of course but not as much as our manager deciding at 80 minutes that he'd had enough of playing in a way that was working well in order to fit in an extra defender by taking off our left midfielder, allowing you lot to stroll down that side of the pitch (with only our LWB who is notorious for not being able to stop a cross in your way) and pop in balls that we simply can't defend. 

Goodwin must have thought it was Christmas day already when Davidson moved to the back 5 tbh. 

Oh, and for good measure he put on an aggressive turn and shoot/penalty box type striker when we needed to defend, rather than a hold-the-ball-up pest. 

Basically, we saw a lot of naivety yesterday, Goodwin's experience paying off and us being punished. Will be interesting to see what the cup semi brings.  

[akuram]

Hendry is becoming just a waste of a jersey. Chris Kane would have been a safer option

 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said:

What I found most surprising was the Fakes lad who went in on Cammy with both feet towards the end, too. We've had players sent off for less this season.

Yeah Hendrys a bit daft. Happens a lot that someone just has to have a wee dig at him and thats him completely out the game because hes more obsessed with that than the game. 

In the build up to one of your goals he spends longer standing next to Doyle-Hayes having a wee chat, since they'd had a dig at each other moments before, then bothering to defend.

Kane has major flaws but theres zero question he should've come on yesterday. Hendry is a man down in that type of situation.

[Jamie_B]

Kane should have been the one on for May. He clearly suits that game and role much better than Hendry. That was baffling and just wrote off any chance of us holding on to the ball in the opposition half.

You can afford a game like yesterday - where you may have the excuse of a questionable red card and subsequent defeat - if you win the games where you’re clearly the better team. We haven’t done that often enough and it’s left us in this ridiculous position now. Say we’d beaten County and drawn with Hibs at home - we battered County and contrived to lose and really should have got at least a point off of Hibs, losing through a 94th minute penalty. Then you look at us sitting in fifth on 21 points and think yesterday was a missed opportunity rather than a disaster.

Failures earlier in the season are putting pressure on us now, and we keep making the same mistakes over and over again, and find ourselves in this position.

[Ric]

Really don't get how people can argue that wasn't a red, it clearly is. Both Davidson and other posters on here have rightly called into question Kerr's decision making, that should be the focus here not whether the referee called it right (which he did).

In regard to Clark, I don't think he was great, but he was massively let down by his defence. Erhahon should have been closed down, which would have either blocked his route to goal or pressurised him when taking the shot. I'm not entirely sure he intended to put it into the ground as he did. The two headers though, by God that was dreadful defending. Erwin lost his man so easily and while Clark could have done better he wouldn't have expected Erwin to be unchallenged. Obika again, loses his man, and I've not checked on the highlights if it's the same person or whether, because he's just come on, nobody had been assigned to him. I presume that'll depend on whether St Johnstone play zonal or man mark.

All in all, the correct result. We would have won that even if St Johnstone had the full compliment on the field.

[RandomGuy.]

39 minutes ago, Ric said:

Obika again, loses his man, and I've not checked on the highlights if it's the same person or whether, because he's just come on, nobody had been assigned to him. I presume that'll depend on whether St Johnstone play zonal or man mark.

 

For the winner, we have McNamara and Hendry on Obika.

McNamara is about 2ft tall and stands ball watching, while Hendry runs away from Obika and ends up standing in 10 yards of space doing absolutely nothing.

For the second, Erwin is between McNamara and Rooney. No idea if there was any communication, but it felt like Rooney had no idea he was unmarked, and McNamara was expecting Rooney to mark him, so in the end they both just left him.

Lack of communication between CBs ties in with a lot of goals we concede. Gaps left all over the shop. Guess you could argue Clark should be helping out since he can see the whole play.

[Steve_Wilkos]

Rather be a chookter than a weegie.

Weegie - anywhere south of Stonehaven

[PauloPerth]

51 minutes ago, Ric said:

Really don't get how people can argue that wasn't a red, it clearly is. Both Davidson and other posters on here have rightly called into question Kerr's decision making, that should be the focus here not whether the referee called it right (which he did).

In regard to Clark, I don't think he was great, but he was massively let down by his defence. Erhahon should have been closed down, which would have either blocked his route to goal or pressurised him when taking the shot. I'm not entirely sure he intended to put it into the ground as he did. The two headers though, by God that was dreadful defending. Erwin lost his man so easily and while Clark could have done better he wouldn't have expected Erwin to be unchallenged. Obika again, loses his man, and I've not checked on the highlights if it's the same person or whether, because he's just come on, nobody had been assigned to him. I presume that'll depend on whether St Johnstone play zonal or man mark.

All in all, the correct result. We would have won that even if St Johnstone had the full compliment on the field.

You ruined a reasonable post with that last sentence.  Total nonsense.

[Zamora Fan]

Having just watched the highlights, I think this is a little harsh on Clark.

The first was a volley right on the penalty spot that nestles perfectly in the top corner - a keeper is going have a hell of a job to reach that.

The second you could maybe say he should’ve made up the ground to the near post quicker following the cross but the header shaved the post as it went in.

Third, as you say, was always going to be difficult to stop. A bullet header from around 5 yards out.

Kinda made my point for me here though, for all its harsh we say the same thing after every game. First one didn’t have much pace on it and was his side of the goal, Clark doesn’t move or read it and it’s in. Better keeper at this level does both of those things and tips it over the bar.

 

Second one is weird. Clark basically panics and does his starfish impression when if he’d kept his composure he could have pushed a fairly paceless header at a good height round the post.

 

3rd is as you say it is: I didn’t mean to include it originally. Great powerful header.

 

None of them are howlers: that’s not what I’m saying. Clark doesn’t tend to concede too many howlers though I can think of a few off the top of my head. The problem is more that after lots of the goals we concede I’m left thinking Alan Mannus or even Peter Enckelman would have saved them and he just never makes great or even good saves. For people who defend Clark - what are his strengths as a goalkeeper? He is weak with low shots, doesn’t judge high shots well (who can recall a diving save?), positioning all over the place (see livi’s winner last week) is very suspect with crosses if he even comes for them in the first place and his kicking - once his biggest strength - is at best average but more often really poor.

 

Might sound like I have an obsession with the guy but at this level a good keeper is the difference between 12th and 10th, 8th and 6th or scraping top six versus getting into Europe. He’s far from being the only problem but I just don’t think he’s a premiership goalkeeper and I think he maybe knows this too - as his confidence gets lower he gets worse. He needs to establish himself at a lower level.

 

I edited this because it felt a bit too mean spirited. He isn’t dreadful by any means just not good enough IMO

[RandomGuy.]

53 minutes ago, Zamora Fan said:

Kinda made my point for me here though, for all its harsh we say the same thing after every game. First one didn’t have much pace on it and was his side of the goal, Clark doesn’t move or read it and it’s in. Better keeper at this level does both of those things and tips it over the bar.

 

Second one is weird. Clark basically panics and does his starfish impression when if he’d kept his composure he could have pushed a fairly paceless header at a good height round the post.

 

3rd is as you say it is: I didn’t mean to include it originally. Great powerful header.

 

None of them are howlers: that’s not what I’m saying. Clark doesn’t tend to concede too many howlers though I can think of a few off the top of my head. The problem is more that after lots of the goals we concede I’m left thinking Alan Mannus or even Peter Enckelman would have saved them and he just never makes great or even good saves. For people who defend Clark - what are his strengths as a goalkeeper? He is weak with low shots, doesn’t judge high shots well (who can recall a diving save?), positioning all over the place (see livi’s winner last week) is very suspect with crosses if he even comes for them in the first place and his kicking - once his biggest strength - is at best average but more often really poor.

 

Might sound like I have an obsession with the guy but at this level a good keeper is the difference between 12th and 10th, 8th and 6th or scraping top six versus getting into Europe. He’s far from being the only problem but I just don’t think he’s a premiership goalkeeper and I think he maybe knows this too - as his confidence gets lower he gets worse. He needs to establish himself at a lower level.

 

I edited this because it felt a bit too mean spirited. He isn’t dreadful by any means just not good enough IMO

Hes conceding a goal every 1.88 shots this season.

Worst rate of conceding of any keeper over the past 5 seasons.

xG conceded is 1.17, lower than the league average over 5 years (1.22).

Last season he was facing a lot of shots, and decent chances, but this season theres not really that excuse. Theres definitely a discussion to be had about him. A goal against Hamilton, the equaliser v Celtic and Motherwell first yesterday all feel like ones he could save if he could move his feet quicker.

 

[Radford]

My thoughts on Clark over the past 16 months have been clear. It's as pressing a concern as any area of the team but we have the local press and the manager talking him up for Scotland. It's like some sort of bizarre parallel universe.

The sad thing is he was a decent keeper for a while but he's regressed so much over the time frame mentioned above. 

He never has much to do in matches but the little he is called upon to manage, regularly proves beyond him. 

I don't think anyone takes any pleasure from criticising him but he gives you so little to be positive about.