New clubs in the West of Scotland

[santheman]

4 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

cheers Sandy - as ever, speculation is great fun but can lead down blind alleys!

Can't be many of them up in Lochgilphead, some hidden glens maybe

[Mr_Magoo]

4 hours ago, santheman said:

That's the bit that is causing some concern and discussion particularly with the Lanarkshire clubs.

There's little appetite for a jaunt up to Argyll for a 7pm KO on a Wednesday night with half a team unavailable due to work commitments.

Not saying it would be a deal breaker but something that would need to be seriously taken into consideration when voting any new applicants in.

 

Fair enough mate, it was really just to point out that it’s a situation that has been the clubs have been in before and have got through for 40+ years in the amateurs, so wouldn’t be a problem in the WoS. And as cmontheloknow says it might not even be a scenario that needs a solution as it’s all just speculation!

[craigkillie]

That's the bit that is causing some concern and discussion particularly with the Lanarkshire clubs.
There's little appetite for a jaunt up to Argyll for a 7pm KO on a Wednesday night with half a team unavailable due to work commitments.
Not saying it would be a deal breaker but something that would need to be seriously taken into consideration when voting any new applicants in.
 

If those Lanarkshire clubs choose to play in a West of Scotland League, then they have to expect to play opponents from anywhere in the west of Scotland. If they're not willing or able to do that then I'd suggest it's them who need to be thinking about dropping down to a level where they can play more locally.

[Hillonearth]

8 hours ago, craigkillie said:

If those Lanarkshire clubs choose to play in a West of Scotland League, then they have to expect to play opponents from anywhere in the west of Scotland. If they're not willing or able to do that then I'd suggest it's them who need to be thinking about dropping down to a level where they can play more locally.

First off, there's been absolutely no indication that any of these clubs has actually even considered applying...once again it's speculation growing arms and legs and becoming fact a couple of pages later in the thread...and secondly, it's exactly the same mindset that applied when the lower levels of the West Region were amalgamated.

There were a minority of people that were muttering about "putting teams oot the game" when their clubs were being asked to travel to say Muirkirk or Lugar who had previously been perfectly happy to travel to say Vale of Leven or the Inverclyde sides. It's mistrust of change - no more, no less.

[LongTimeLurker]

AFAIR there were chat group messages from a WoS officeholder about 11 applications having been received so far with one involving a mega bus trip. It's a reasonable inference that mega bus trip = Argyll.

9 hours ago, craigkillie said:

If those Lanarkshire clubs choose to play in a West of Scotland League, then they have to expect to play opponents from anywhere in the west of Scotland. If they're not willing or able to do that then I'd suggest it's them who need to be thinking about dropping down to a level where they can play more locally.

This assertion is not correct. The WoS membership would get the final say on new members and if they collectively don't want an Oban, Lochgilphead, Campbelltown etc team on board then a club like that wouldn't be able to get in. It's entirely reasonable to speculate as to what conditions would be needed to make the participation of a club like that viable in logistical terms because it's not something that could be imposed on the existing WoS clubs by diktat. My guess would be that the way to do it successfully would be to allow them in for league games only so they would be playing fewer games than other clubs that could be kept to weekends only except in extremely exceptional circumstances.

On 28/03/2021 at 16:05, FairWeatherFan said:

Applications are up to 11. So the standalone league below the Conferences might be on the cards. Also what i'm taking as a strong hint that one might be an Argyll & Bute applicant.

Edited April 14, 2021 by LongTimeLurker

[craigkillie]

10 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

This assertion is not correct. The WoS membership would get the final say on new members and if they collectively don't want an Oban, Lochgilphead, Campbelltown etc team on board then a club like that wouldn't be able to get in. It's entirely reasonable to speculate as to what conditions would be needed to make the participation of a club like that viable in logistical terms because it's not something that could be imposed on the existing WoS clubs by diktat. My guess would be that the way to do it successfully would be to allow them in for league games only so they would be playing fewer games than other clubs that could be kept to weekends only except in extremely exceptional circumstances.

I'm not making an assertion of the rules, I'm fairly obviously making an assertion of what should happen. No club should be blocked from access to the pyramid purely because a couple of secretary members at another club want home in time for their tea.

[geo87]

I played against all these teams at amateur level, with Oban always making it into the later stages of the Scottish, usually had a bigger fixture backlog than most at the end of season.

Was very rarely an issue in the amateurs, embrace it and it make the most of these days out

[santheman]

See this is what pisses me off about this thread. You can't mention a perfectly valid concern by some clubs about potential new entrants without being accused of being anti pyramid.

It's nothing to do with mistrust of change or getting home in time for your tea. It's concern over the implications of a possible midweek game 2/3 hours travelling time away,nothing more nothing less.

As I said, with a bit of imagination that scenario might not even be an issue anyway.

It's all pure speculation (or now maybe not) but it's something that any responsible club official would have to consider, one of them being a VERY vocal supporter of the pyramid btw.

[craigkillie]

My point is that club officials shouldn't be allowed to consider something like that. It should purely be: a) are they in our league's catchment area? and b) are their facilities appropriate for our league?

Edited April 14, 2021 by craigkillie

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

AFAIR there were chat group messages from a WoS officeholder about 11 applications having been received so far with one involving a mega bus trip. It's a reasonable inference that mega bus trip = Argyll.

I read that as being a destination Megabus serve, which in the WOS area without a club  is Campeltown or Oban.

[cmontheloknow]

27 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I read that as being a destination Megabus serve, which in the WOS area without a club  is Campeltown or Oban.

I am with LTL - long trip.

[santheman]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

My point is that club officials shouldn't be allowed to consider something like that. It should purely be: a) are they in our league's catchment area? and b) are their facilities appropriate for our league?

Well unfortunately that's what's in the current constitution.

If enough clubs don't like it then they can always propose a vote to have it removed and give complete authority to the Management Committee to decide who joins or the Management Committee can even propose it as a rule change themselves.

 

[Stag Nation]

3 hours ago, craigkillie said:

My point is that club officials shouldn't be allowed to consider something like that. It should purely be: a) are they in our league's catchment area? and b) are their facilities appropriate for our league?

And what is the catchment area?

[craigkillie]

49 minutes ago, Stag Nation said:

And what is the catchment area?

That was more or less established via the agreement with the EoS League, in conjunction with the existing HL/LL boundary. Lanarkshire, Ayrshire, Renfrewshire, Glasgow, Dunbartonshire and the parts of Argyll and Bute that are south of the HL/LL line. Kello, being just over the border with D&G, are also part of that.

[Andy groundhopper]

Amazing to hear that some clubs won't like travelling too far - maybe the catchment area needs to be enlarged ? Imagine in the pro game : we  don't want to go to Glasgow etc  ( maybe fair enough argument) but it would never happen. The league are in charge, and the clubs should have to stick by the rules. Good luck to all new clubs in a bright new future.

[rockson]

10 hours ago, santheman said:

See this is what pisses me off about this thread. You can't mention a perfectly valid concern by some clubs about potential new entrants without being accused of being anti pyramid.

It's nothing to do with mistrust of change or getting home in time for your tea. It's concern over the implications of a possible midweek game 2/3 hours travelling time away,nothing more nothing less.

As I said, with a bit of imagination that scenario might not even be an issue anyway.

It's all pure speculation (or now maybe not) but it's something that any responsible club official would have to consider, one of them being a VERY vocal supporter of the pyramid btw.

If he's such a supporter of the pyramid then he shouldn't object to teams fulfillling the entry criteria for a pyramid league being admitted to that league. Short travelling distance is not one of those criteria.

[Hillonearth]

23 hours ago, santheman said:

See this is what pisses me off about this thread. You can't mention a perfectly valid concern by some clubs about potential new entrants without being accused of being anti pyramid.

It's nothing to do with mistrust of change or getting home in time for your tea. It's concern over the implications of a possible midweek game 2/3 hours travelling time away,nothing more nothing less.

As I said, with a bit of imagination that scenario might not even be an issue anyway.

It's all pure speculation (or now maybe not) but it's something that any responsible club official would have to consider, one of them being a VERY vocal supporter of the pyramid btw.

While stressing yet again that there's no evidence that any mega-remote sides have actually applied, it's something that would need to be factored in by Kennie Young should a team like that join...midweek games would obviously be out of the question for the reasons you stated.

That being said, an element of crazy fixture scheduling previously was a reality for some years under the former regime - I can remember maybe four years back when we were down to play Shotts away in a 6.30 kickoff, and at 6.25 seeing cars literally skidding into the car park and disgorging players in full kit who ran straight on to the park...

It would be down to the league to manage it, as it would border on lunacy to expect a Lanark or Lesmahagow...or indeed a Maryhill...to be able to put a meaningful team together that would be able to travel to say Campbeltown (3.5 hours minimum) for a 7.45 kickoff, considering they would need to be at the ground for around 7pm for warm-up etc. It obviously isn't really feasible when the vast majority of the squad will be working day jobs.

There would be no reason whatsoever to be concerned about Saturday games if...again, IF...it came to pass though - I imagine most players and fans would welcome the journey once a season. When you think back, there was never any grumbling when a team got drawn away to a hugely remote side like maybe Whitehills or Maud in the junior cup for example which presented a similar opportunity for making a day of it.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Hillonearth

[santheman]

1 hour ago, Hillonearth said:

While stressing yet again that there's no evidence that any mega-remote sides have actually applied, it's something that would need to be factored in by Kennie Young should a team like that join...midweek games would obviously be out of the question for the reasons you stated.

That being said, an element of crazy fixture scheduling previously was a reality for some years under the former regime - I can remember maybe four years back when we were down to play Shotts away in a 6.30 kickoff, and at 6.25 seeing cars literally skidding into the car park and disgorging players in full kit who ran straight on to the park...

It would be down to the league to manage it, as it would border on lunacy to expect a Lanark or Lesmahagow...or indeed a Maryhill...to be able to put a meaningful team together that would be able to travel to say Campbeltown (3.5 hours minimum) for a 7.45 kickoff, considering they would need to be at the ground for around 7pm for warm-up etc. It obviously isn't really feasible when the vast majority of the squad will be working day jobs.

There would be no reason whatsoever to be concerned about Saturday games if...again, IF...it came to pass though - I imagine most players and fans would welcome the journey once a season. When you think back, there was never any grumbling when a team got drawn away to a hugely remote side like maybe Whitehills or Maud in the junior cup for example which presented a similar opportunity for making a day of it.

Thanks for a well thought out and balanced reply HOE, no more than what I've come to expect from you and I agree with every word.

A nice Saturday jaunt to somewhere you haven't been before is one of life's pleasures.

[jimbaxters]

2 hours ago, Hillonearth said:

While stressing yet again that there's no evidence that any mega-remote sides have actually applied, it's something that would need to be factored in by Kennie Young should a team like that join...midweek games would obviously be out of the question for the reasons you stated.

That being said, an element of crazy fixture scheduling previously was a reality for some years under the former regime - I can remember maybe four years back when we were down to play Shotts away in a 6.30 kickoff, and at 6.25 seeing cars literally skidding into the car park and disgorging players in full kit who ran straight on to the park...

It would be down to the league to manage it, as it would border on lunacy to expect a Lanark or Lesmahagow...or indeed a Maryhill...to be able to put a meaningful team together that would be able to travel to say Campbeltown (3.5 hours minimum) for a 7.45 kickoff, considering they would need to be at the ground for around 7pm for warm-up etc. It obviously isn't really feasible when the vast majority of the squad will be working day jobs.

There would be no reason whatsoever to be concerned about Saturday games if...again, IF...it came to pass though - I imagine most players and fans would welcome the journey once a season. When you think back, there was never any grumbling when a team got drawn away to a hugely remote side like maybe Whitehills or Maud in the junior cup for example which presented a similar opportunity for making a day of it.

Not only was there no grumbling, there were lots of posters here with fingers crossed for an away tie to Nairn or the like in the SJC. Now it seems that going half that distance once  a season in the league is an issue. Strange.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

Not only was there no grumbling, there were lots of posters here with fingers crossed for an away tie to Nairn or the like in the SJC. Now it seems that going half that distance once  a season in the league is an issue. Strange.

I think some people don't fully grasp the distances and travel times that are potentially involved with a game against a team at the foot of the Kintyre peninsula. Check it out on Google Maps and you get Auchinleck to Campbelltown (169 miles - 3 hr 41 min) as opposed to Nairn (208 miles 3 hr 57 min) for an SJC game. Even Oban (128 miles - 2 hr 46 min) is comparable to the most distant Tayside juniors clubs such as Brechin Vics (144 miles - 2 hr 37 min) in that context.

Edited April 15, 2021 by LongTimeLurker