The Hypothetical Roadmap to Getting Fans Back in the SPFL Grounds Discussion

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

Depends what you said - did you mention that Hamilton is a bigger town?

No - but you just did!

 

[HibeeJibee]

Scottish Football Supporters Association - is this the new vehicle for Paul Goodwin/Supporters Direct? - have come out heavily in favour.

It's just "a kind of fan passport and some extra hassle" and "fans get it, we can grumble but we also support the strong public health action":

Edited September 2, 2021 by HibeeJibee

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

25 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Scottish Football Supporters Association - is this the new vehicle for Paul Goodwin/Supporters Direct? - have come out heavily in favour.

It's just "a kind of fan passport and some extra hassle" and "fans get it, we can grumble but we also support the strong public health action":

Big fan of organisation issuing statements about their stance while also saying they will ask their members for feedback.

[craigkillie]

Scottish Football Supporters Association - is this the new vehicle for Paul Goodwin/Supporters Direct? - have come out heavily in favour.

It's just "a kind of fan passport and some extra hassle" and "fans get it, we can grumble but we also support the strong public health action":

It has nothing to do with Supporters Direct. It's Paul Goodwin's follow up ego trip after he was emptied by Supporters Direct.

[AJF]

1 hour ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

Big fan of organisation issuing statements about their stance while also saying they will ask their members for feedback.

Exactly. I wonder if the members they ask for feedback will be limited to, oh let me guess, 1 person.

[HibeeJibee]

Measure expected to pass today with SNP and Green backing.

Government only released info just before debate and vote but BBC article suggests venue capacity may be the criteria not event atttendance?

...

Some international sporting events would require attendees to have a vaccine passport. The national football and rugby stadiums, Hampden and Murrayfield, and eight Scottish Premiership clubs all have stadium capacities of more than 10,000.

The smallest of those is St Johnstone's stadium, which seats 10,600. It is not yet clear whether they would need to request a vaccine passport if their McDiarmid Park stadium was not at full capacity.

Supporters attending matches at Hamilton Academical, Livingston, Ross County and St Mirren's stadiums would not be required to show a vaccine passport.

...

[AJF]

It's just crazy to believe that it is somehow safe for 9,999 fans to attend a match without covid passports but it's not safe for 10,000 to attend without covid passports, no matter the stadium size.

It's even crazier to believe that a crowd of 10,000+ people who have a covid passport is likely to minimise the spread of the virus in comparison to a 10,000+ mixed crowd when the vaccine does not prevent transmission.

Additionally, what happens if a club have sold less than 10,000 tickets for a match, including to those without a vaccine passport but then sales on the day take the attendance above 10,000? Will those who do not have a passport be given a refund when they are refused entry?

Will the Scottish Government be making provisions to refund supporters who have purchased season tickets at clubs that will now no longer be able to attend matches?

Imagine you're a 10 year old that is football daft and you're now being told you can't go anymore because the parent/guardian that takes you has decided not to receive an entirely voluntary vaccine.

Edited September 9, 2021 by AJF

[RandomGuy.]

So we could have 1000 folk turn up for a game in a 10,000 seater stadium, and have to refuse some entry because they've not had a vaccine that doesn't prevent transmission anyway?

[johnnydun]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

So we could have 1000 folk turn up for a game in a 10,000 seater stadium, and have to refuse some entry because they've not had a vaccine that doesn't prevent transmission anyway?

Could the clubs (like ours) limit the ticket sales to 9,999? 

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, johnnydun said:

Could the clubs (like ours) limit the ticket sales to 9,999? 

If it is based on capacity rather than attendance, you reckon you could close a section of the stadium so capacity is below 10k? 

Surely it'll just be done by attendance, with clubs limiting to just below it when possible, as you say.

[HibeeJibee]

2 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Measure expected to pass today with SNP and Green backing.

Passed on party lines.

Starts in 3 weeks albeit much detail still undecided - operational aspects, enforcement, sanctions, even defining some settings where it'll apply.

'Outdoors unseated' at 4,000 includes venues mixing seating & standing... that could 'draw in' Championship/etc.? Alternatively - shut terracings?

Staff + volunteers exempt i.e. players/officials/media/stewards/etc.

News said legislation runs until February (when it'll presumably be rolled into "emergency act" renewed in March?).

Edited September 9, 2021 by HibeeJibee

[johnnydun]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

If it is based on capacity rather than attendance, you reckon you could close a section of the stadium so capacity is below 10k? 

Surely it'll just be done by attendance, with clubs limiting to just below it when possible, as you say.

This is another bit I don't get. Dens, and other grounds are made up of individual stands, I can't see what the issue is with having the max number in each stand because they are all individualy much lower than 10k and are so clearly separated. The Government has made a farce of this.

Dundee should just limit it to 9,999 home support only.

[HibeeJibee]

Even assuming it's done by attendance not capacity - are Arbroath, Ayr, Morton or QotS likely to have crowds over 4,000 this season?

[craigkillie]

Ayr will get that against us.

[invergowrie arab]

2 hours ago, AJF said:

It's even crazier to believe that a crowd of 10,000+ people who have a covid passport is likely to minimise the spread of the virus in comparison to a 10,000+ mixed crowd when the vaccine does not prevent transmission.

 

There is ample evidence that vaccinations substantially reduce the transmission of the virus.

[craigkillie]

Reduce, not prevent.

[invergowrie arab]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Reduce, not prevent.

I mean that's literally what I wrote.

So a 10,000 crowd of fully vaccinated people will minimise transmission v a 10,000 mixed crowd. Not just on the 10,000 attendees but on a population level.

If folk want to say it's illiberal or whatever fine but the "doesnae stop it anyway" line is bollocks 

[invergowrie arab]

The guidance seems pretty clear it's attendance and not capacity which is relevant.

[craigkillie]

9 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I mean that's literally what I wrote.

So a 10,000 crowd of fully vaccinated people will minimise transmission v a 10,000 mixed crowd. Not just on the 10,000 attendees but on a population level.

If folk want to say it's illiberal or whatever fine but the "doesnae stop it anyway" line is bollocks 

You appeared to be contradicting the post you replied to, which said "prevent". Any decision like this has to be evidence-based surely, and that would require proof that there is actually a substantial difference between the two. Bear in mind that the "mixed" crowd probably has 60-70% of people fully vaccinated in the first place and the "fully vaccinated" crowd will possibly have something like 90% of people fully vaccinated by the time you exclude children and people who are exempt for any other reason. So you are most likely talking about a small number of people.

[AJF]

18 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

You appeared to be contradicting the post you replied to, which said "prevent". Any decision like this has to be evidence-based surely, and that would require proof that there is actually a substantial difference between the two. Bear in mind that the "mixed" crowd probably has 60-70% of people fully vaccinated in the first place and the "fully vaccinated" crowd will possibly have something like 90% of people fully vaccinated by the time you exclude children and people who are exempt for any other reason. So you are most likely talking about a small number of people.

This is what often gets overlooked. You are more likely to catch the virus from someone that is fully vaccinated than someone that isn’t.

Outdoor transmission is also extremely unlikely so these covid passports should have no place in football.