How Do We Solve a Problem Like Obesity?

[BFTD]

I cut out sugar altogether for a few months last year. The idea that it's not addictive is hilarious.

I've been off it again for about a month now; took a bit of getting back into the habit after allowing myself some kind of enjoyment over Christmas. You don't realise quite how many foodstuffs are jammed full of various forms of sugars until you start looking, as I'm sure the diabetes sufferers among us can attest to. The idea of doing this for the rest of my life, as I know some people have voluntarily done, is incredibly depressing, like if you were told you'd never be able to have an orgasm again, but it might have to be done as I'm not personally capable of consuming sugars without overdosing.

[GordonS]

It's not necessarily sugar or fat or anything else that's addictive. It's dopamine. 

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, GordonS said:

It's not necessarily sugar or fat or anything else that's addictive. It's dopamine. 

Sounds tasty. Can you get it in sugar-free desserts yet?

[Aufc]

54 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I cut out sugar altogether for a few months last year. The idea that it's not addictive is hilarious.

I've been off it again for about a month now; took a bit of getting back into the habit after allowing myself some kind of enjoyment over Christmas. You don't realise quite how many foodstuffs are jammed full of various forms of sugars until you start looking, as I'm sure the diabetes sufferers among us can attest to. The idea of doing this for the rest of my life, as I know some people have voluntarily done, is incredibly depressing, like if you were told you'd never be able to have an orgasm again, but it might have to be done as I'm not personally capable of consuming sugars without overdosing.

I think you are misunderstanding the earlier point. Eating lots of sugar wont actually make you fat. It may cause you other health problems, however, if you are still eating less calories than you are burning, you wont put on weight. So eating sugar can be offset therefore you cant really class it in the same category as gambling/alchol etc. These things cannot be offset by doing something else. 

The thing is with removing off a certain type of food is that you are always going to miss it which leads to cravings. If you have a balanced diet, which allow some treats, and do some exercise then you wont be obese. 

Edited March 16, 2021 by Aufc

[GordonS]

6 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Sounds tasty. Can you get it in sugar-free desserts yet?

If you could, the manufacturers would be billionaires. 

[BFTD]

4 minutes ago, Aufc said:

I think you are misunderstanding the earlier point. Eating lots of sugar wont actually make you fat. It may cause you other health problems, however, if you are still eating less calories than you are burning, you wont put on weight. So eating sugar can be offset therefore you cant really class it in the same category as gambling/alchol etc. These things cannot be offset by doing something else. 

The thing is with removing off a certain type of food is that you are always going to miss it which leads to cravings. If you have a balanced diet, which allow some treats, and do some exercise then you wont be obese. 

No idea what the earlier point was, but I'm not capable of eating sugar in moderation, in the same way that other people can't partake in other vices without going overboard.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

If you could, the manufacturers would be billionaires. 

I sometimes wonder what original recipe Coca-Cola must have tasted like, considering how much people say Irn-Bru has been ruined by the sugar reduction/introduction of artificial sweeteners. Or how Coke has been ruined by the use of corn syrup, for that matter.

Would cocaine change the flavour of a drink, or was it just the effects that people liked?

[ICTChris]

19 minutes ago, Aufc said:

I think you are misunderstanding the earlier point. Eating lots of sugar wont actually make you fat. It may cause you other health problems, however, if you are still eating less calories than you are burning, you wont put on weight. So eating sugar can be offset therefore you cant really class it in the same category as gambling/alchol etc. These things cannot be offset by doing something else. 

The thing is with removing off a certain type of food is that you are always going to miss it which leads to cravings. If you have a balanced diet, which allow some treats, and do some exercise then you wont be obese. 

Another factor is satiety.  For example, there are, according to Google, 346 calories in a bag of Haribo.  I could easily eat a whole bag of Haribo.

The number of calories in a tuna sandwich is a little more - can of tuna (198), two slices of brown bread (150) and a tablespoon of mayo (94) makes 442.  But clearly if you have a tuna sandwich for lunch you are going to be fuller for longer than if you have a bag of Haribo, as well as getting more nutrients from it.

ETA - I really want both a tuna sandwich and a bag of Haribo now.

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by ICTChris

[GordonS]

2 minutes ago, BFTD said:

I sometimes wonder what original recipe Coca-Cola must have tasted like, considering how much people say Irn-Bru has been ruined by the sugar reduction/introduction of artificial sweeteners. Or how Coke has been ruined by the use of corn syrup, for that matter.

Would cocaine change the flavour of a drink, or was it just the effects that people liked?

Food manufacturers all know about the holy combination of sugar and fat. When you put that in your body, your body rewards you for doing it. We all live in different bodies though and the rewards we are given vary from person to person. That's why the smug, ignorant "eat less" crowd have nothing to offer to this discussion.

Here's a paper from researchers at Princeton that says binging on sugar and fat creates dopamine releases similar to drug use: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2714381/ 

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

Food manufacturers all know about the holy combination of sugar and fat. When you put that in your body, your body rewards you for doing it. We all live in different bodies though and the rewards we are given vary from person to person. That's why the smug, ignorant "eat less" crowd have nothing to offer to this discussion.

Here's a paper from researchers at Princeton that says binging on sugar and fat creates dopamine releases similar to drug use: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2714381/ 

Yeah, it's no accident that the use of sugar and fat has increased over the generations.

Still quite interested in the Cocaine-Cola thing though. I take it that it's not as simple as just adding some coke into your Coke to duplicate the 19th century experience. And does caffeine actually have a reason for being in drinks, other than for its addictive qualities? I heard it's supposed to be quite bitter, yet it's always cited as 'flavouring'.

[ICTChris]

I don't think they used to put much cocaine into the drink, you probably wouldn't be able to taste it.

Did Rishi Sunak not drink 'Mexican Coke' during the budget, that's made with cane sugar rather than the corn syrup they use in the states (not in the UK though).  Mexico has a massive obesity problem as well.

[BFTD]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

I don't think they used to put much cocaine into the drink, you probably wouldn't be able to taste it.

Did Rishi Sunak not drink 'Mexican Coke' during the budget, that's made with cane sugar rather than the corn syrup they use in the states (not in the UK though).  Mexico has a massive obesity problem as well.

Yeah, apparently there are folk who drive across the border regularly to stock up on the Mexican stuff, as they say it tastes much better.

I've also seen claims that corn syrup is worse for weight gain, but that sounds a bit like wishful thinking to me. They should just try a proper drink like Irn-Bru IMO.

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Yeah, apparently there are folk who drive across the border regularly to stock up on the Mexican stuff, as they say it tastes much better.

I've also seen claims that corn syrup is worse for weight gain, but that sounds a bit like wishful thinking to me. They should just try a proper drink like Irn-Bru IMO.

I don't buy that either - in your body, sugar is sugar. But corn syrup turns up in all sorts of foods where it doesn't belong and you might not expect it, so has a big role in obesity. The reason for this is that highly processed foods lose their flavour along the way, so they add sugars, fats and salt (and often minerals and vitamins to look good on the label). Breakfast cereals are a good example of that.

M&S do sandwiches with more calories than a Big Mac.

[vikingTON]

55 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Food manufacturers all know about the holy combination of sugar and fat. When you put that in your body, your body rewards you for doing it. We all live in different bodies though and the rewards we are given vary from person to person. That's why the smug, ignorant "eat less" crowd have nothing to offer to this discussion.

The only ignorant person around here is the one identifying 'eat less' as the core message of anyone in this discussion.

More self-pitying drivel, as if an ice cream somehow tastes less good to someone who takes responsibility for their health. 

[Aufc]

If someone cant have sugar in moderation and cant/doesnt want to do anything about it then surely the trade off is to move more to offset this. Unless i am missing something the whole equation is fairly straightforward.

[BFTD]

8 minutes ago, Aufc said:

If someone cant have sugar in moderation and cant/doesnt want to do anything about it then surely the trade off is to move more to offset this. Unless i am missing something the whole equation is fairly straightforward.

I dunno, how much moving negates the consumption of a box of Milk Tray?

[velo army]

Saying that you're not addicted to sugar, but dopamine, is a bit obtuse. It's like saying that heroin addicts are addicted to dopamine, not heroin. Heroin causes a huge and sudden spike in dopamine, which is why it feels so bloody good (so I've read). 

If it was purely dopamine you would be able to sub out sugar for gambling or, well, heroin.  

Oh, and @GordonS, I recommend the depression thread. It's choc full of guid cvnts. Even if you're not in need of advice or help, just reading the stories of others and offering some experiences of your own works wonders.

[Aufc]

I dunno, how much moving negates the consumption of a box of Milk Tray?

f**k knows but im away to have a wee chocolate now after this discussion

[BFTD]

30 minutes ago, Aufc said:

f**k knows but im away to have a wee chocolate now after this discussion

 

[GordonS]

56 minutes ago, velo army said:

Saying that you're not addicted to sugar, but dopamine, is a bit obtuse. It's like saying that heroin addicts are addicted to dopamine, not heroin. Heroin causes a huge and sudden spike in dopamine, which is why it feels so bloody good (so I've read). 

If it was purely dopamine you would be able to sub out sugar for gambling or, well, heroin.  

 

There is also a biochemical addiction to drugs and alcohol that doesn't exist the same way with food, but what you're saying is pretty my point to those saying food isn't addictive like alcohol or drugs. If your brain gets the same stimulation from it then it's a pointless distinction.

I think I might be addicted to my phone...

Quote

Oh, and @GordonS, I recommend the depression thread. It's choc full of guid cvnts. Even if you're not in need of advice or help, just reading the stories of others and offering some experiences of your own works wonders.

No doubt, but I'm too easily triggered by bawbags on the internet. And it doesn't feel right to lurk on that thread without sharing, which I've already done much more than I wanted to.