Is Football as a sport unfairly targeted?

[AberdeenBud]

I've got friends who work in CJ and they say the same. You would have to willfully ignorant to ignore the link between violence(domestic and otherwise) and old firm clubs/games.

Saying that, the tweet in the OP is still pretty stupid and offensive. Despite the murder being an complete tragedy it had nothing to do with football and domestic violence and I'm not sure folk diving in two footed to use her murder to further their own agenda is the best way to honour her memory. Hope they'll be tying one of those ribbons to a cop shop.

[RandomGuy.]

45 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If Scotland were to win the Rugby World Cup would we see scene anywhere near on par with that?

You regularly see piss stained rugby fans shitting around Edinburgh after 6 Nations games. 

Rugby fans regularly abuse folk on trains etc., before and after matches as they're so tanked up. There's multiple examples of this within Scotland over the past decade.

Rugby fans are treated differently. A pissed Rugby fan with spew down his front is waved into the stadium and handed another drink, the equivalent football fan is jumped on by 3 stewards refusing him entry, they then call police over who huckle him into a van, while his mates try and tell them he's done nothing wrong, and it escalates. 

One doesn't get reported, the other becomes a "football fans JAILED after drunken brawl!" story.

[DukDukGoose]

8 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You regularly see piss stained rugby fans shitting around Edinburgh after 6 Nations games. 

Rugby fans regularly abuse folk on trains etc., before and after matches as they're so tanked up. There's multiple examples of this within Scotland over the past decade.

Rugby fans are treated differently. A pissed Rugby fan with spew down his front is waved into the stadium and handed another drink, the equivalent football fan is jumped on by 3 stewards refusing him entry, they then call police over who huckle him into a van, while his mates try and tell them he's done nothing wrong, and it escalates. 

One doesn't get reported, the other becomes a "football fans JAILED after drunken brawl!" story.

 Aye ok.

[AJF]

1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

I find it quite interesting that you're asking if football fans are treated unfairly in general after the events of last weekend.

You seemed to be in favour of the alcohol ban being lifted. Several people commented that Rangers and Celtic fan behaviour under the influence of alcohol would likely see that put in the bin before it's even given serious consdieration. You disagreed.

Less than a month later fans of your club destroyed memorial benches, were firing fireworks from the middle of crowded areas, pissing and shiting themselves or masturbating in full view of the general public. This is in celebration. We're then told by prominent members of the Scottish football media that it's out of order but it's also understandable. Is it? If Scotland were to win the Rugby World Cup would we see scene anywhere near on par with that?

Unfortunately the game of football attracts the dregs of society. It's always going to be viewed this way until they find something else to follow.

 

I asked the question because it is topical and I wanted to get other peoples opinions on it and not just my own. I’m not sure what you are inferring when you said you find it “interesting” I’ve asked such a question? Surely disregarding the opinions of others would be seen to be ignorant?

I was and still am in favour of the alcohol ban being lifted at football stadiums. This is not to say that I excuse fan behaviour while under the influence, more that I believe fans will get drunk regardless if they want to, either in pubs before the game or carry outs on their bus. At least allowing alcohol to be served in the stadium will benefit the clubs rather than just the pubs and will potentially allow police/stewards easier control of fans if more are gathered in the stadium so I think you’ve misrepresented my view on it somewhat.

Additionally, I’ve not once defended the actions of the Rangers fans last weekend, if that’s what you think I’m getting at then you’re reading too much into this.

I couldn’t possibly comment on what the scenes would be like if Scotland won the Rugby World Cup, my question was asking whether football fans are unfairly targeted or not.

[RandomGuy.]

31 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

 Aye ok.

Scottish Rugby fans, a great well behaved bunch of lads...

I'm sure football fans would be getting away with this too. You'd have 4 police vans surrounding them before 2 minutes were out...

Rugby fans are seen as middle classed adults just having a laugh, 20yo football fans doing the above get classed as hooligans causing a disturbance. There's clearly a prejudice held against football fans that isn't held against Rugby fans.

Edited March 13, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[Derry Alli]

1 hour ago, Merkland Red said:

You support two teams though.

As do you. 

1 hour ago, Ric said:

Unless you are trying to be funny, that's a pretty pointless addition to the debate.

Is it? 

Can you tell me how a game, invented for pleasure is 'tribal'? 

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, AJF said:

I asked the question because it is topical and I wanted to get other peoples opinions on it and not just my own. I’m not sure what you are inferring when you said you find it “interesting” I’ve asked such a question? Surely disregarding the opinions of others would be seen to be ignorant?

I was and still am in favour of the alcohol ban being lifted at football stadiums. This is not to say that I excuse fan behaviour while under the influence, more that I believe fans will get drunk regardless if they want to, either in pubs before the game or carry outs on their bus. At least allowing alcohol to be served in the stadium will benefit the clubs rather than just the pubs and will potentially allow police/stewards easier control of fans if more are gathered in the stadium so I think you’ve misrepresented my view on it somewhat.

Additionally, I’ve not once defended the actions of the Rangers fans last weekend, if that’s what you think I’m getting at then you’re reading too much into this.

I couldn’t possibly comment on what the scenes would be like if Scotland won the Rugby World Cup, my question was asking whether football fans are unfairly targeted or not.

So after last weekends debacle you think drinking at the football should be encouraged?

[DukDukGoose]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Scottish Rugby fans, a great well behaved bunch of lads...

I'm sure football fans would be getting away with this too. You'd have 4 police vans surrounding them before 2 minutes were out...

 

Are you for real?

I don't even like Rugby. I've no need to defend it or their fans. Those examples are nothing in comparison to nonsense I've seen at football stadiums and no-one in the authorities ahs batted an eye.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Merkland Red said:

Are you for real?

I don't even like Rugby. I've no need to defend it or their fans. Those examples are nothing in comparison to nonsense I've seen at football stadiums and no-one in the authorities ahs batted an eye.

A lot of the bother caused at football is caused by the way the fans are treated. Rugby doesn't have that problem, which is my point.

If you had a group of boozed up Rugby fans told to f**k off from a pub because the colour of their shirt, do you think there would be violence? If the same group are physically restrained from entering the ground, do you think there would be violence?

I'm not excusing moron football fans, my point is there's clearly a difference in how fans are treated between sports, and things just spiral from there.

[AJF]

6 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

So after last weekends debacle you think drinking at the football should be encouraged?

I’ve already given my view on it and last weekends scenes don’t change that. Last weekend was the exception, not the norm and it happened while fans weren’t even allowed into a match.

If this was a “normal” season, it’s likely Rangers fans would’ve been inside Ibrox on the Saturday and within pubs on the Sunday so it’s likely the scenes in George Square wouldn’t have occurred so I don’t think it’s a stick that can be effectively used to beat the argument to allow the sale of alcohol inside stadiums with.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

One of the best things about football is the ‘edge’ that comes with it. It creates the atmosphere in grounds that others just don’t because it does mean more to people than just a sporting event.

Problem is that football is always pushing against the very limits of social acceptability. Society accepts this edge that comes with football to a point. Whether we like it or not there’s a demographic of young men in particular that see it as a vehicle to channel their excess testosterone in a semi acceptable way. 

The authorities are always going to push back against this because if they don’t it will absolutely cross a line. There’s absolutely no doubt this is an issue football contends with more than any other sport. 

I don’t think a tenuous link to domestic violence is a particularly great example but I wouldn’t say the extra attention football gets for anti social behaviour is unfair. 

 

A case in point would be the Rangers debacle down in Manchester a few years back, using my own town as a prime example, there were around 6 "supporters" buses left from the town on the morning of the game, however only one was the actual official fans with the other 5 being full of the utter scum neds from the town, the majority of whom had no interest in football nor had they ever attended any football match Rangers or otherwise. So, while many of them might have identified as "Rangers men", it would be a huge jump to describe them as "football supporters".

That said, it was the occasion which obviously attracted them for the fighting side of it, but can "football" be held responsible for that ??

My point being that these characters will look for trouble wherever they can find it and if it wasn't football it would be something else, same goes for domestic violence, it's nothing to do with "football" but everything to do with the individual who is going to be a nasty piece of work with or without football, if people can't see that then there's really not much hope for us.......

[Ric]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said:

Is it? 

Can you tell me how a game, invented for pleasure is 'tribal'? 

You are obviously more intelligent than this. I really don't understand why you are being obtuse here.

[tamthebam]

Are football fans unfairly treated?

I do think it is unfair to take a broad brush to ALL fans. As well as the gruesome twosome there are wallopers in the support of a lot of big clubs- Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc. But to treat, say a harmless lot like Dunbar United fans, in the same way is disproportionate.

The Glasgow Police seem to treat all football fans as potential rioters and given that they have to handle Rangers and Celtic games I have some sympathy. But it's hardly going to kick off at Partick v Montrose. Similarly the stewards at Hampden are a bit heavy handed, enforcing separation between QP and Edinburgh City fans in the stand whenever we play them. It's a bit daft as we all mingle in the concourse at half time anyway.

[GAD]

15 minutes ago, AJF said:

I asked the question because it is topical and I wanted to get other peoples opinions on it and not just my own. I’m not sure what you are inferring when you said you find it “interesting” I’ve asked such a question? Surely disregarding the opinions of others would be seen to be ignorant?

I was and still am in favour of the alcohol ban being lifted at football stadiums. This is not to say that I excuse fan behaviour while under the influence, more that I believe fans will get drunk regardless if they want to, either in pubs before the game or carry outs on their bus. At least allowing alcohol to be served in the stadium will benefit the clubs rather than just the pubs and will potentially allow police/stewards easier control of fans if more are gathered in the stadium so I think you’ve misrepresented my view on it somewhat.

Additionally, I’ve not once defended the actions of the Rangers fans last weekend, if that’s what you think I’m getting at then you’re reading too much into this.

I couldn’t possibly comment on what the scenes would be like if Scotland won the Rugby World Cup, my question was asking whether football fans are unfairly targeted or not.

Agreed, I actually think selling alcohol in the ground might actually improve some of the problems round the ground pre match particularly with large away crowds. There wouldn't be that need to throw as much down the neck as possible right up to the point you walk in the turnstiles.

[DukDukGoose]

6 minutes ago, GAD said:

Agreed, I actually think selling alcohol in the ground might actually improve some of the problems round the ground pre match particularly with large away crowds. There wouldn't be that need to throw as much down the neck as possible right up to the point you walk in the turnstiles.

Wishful thinking.

There's no real need for folk to throw drink down their necks at someones house before going to a party or out to clubs (those were the days) but we still do.

If folk genuinely think being able to have a few watered down pints is going to calm the drink culture at football grounds then I think you'd be sorely disappointed.

[GAD]

5 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

Are football fans unfairly treated?

I do think it is unfair to take a broad brush to ALL fans. As well as the gruesome twosome there are wallopers in the support of a lot of big clubs- Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc. But to treat, say a harmless lot like Dunbar United fans, in the same way is disproportionate.

The Glasgow Police seem to treat all football fans as potential rioters and given that they have to handle Rangers and Celtic games I have some sympathy. But it's hardly going to kick off at Partick v Montrose. Similarly the stewards at Hampden are a bit heavy handed, enforcing separation between QP and Edinburgh City fans in the stand whenever we play them. It's a bit daft as we all mingle in the concourse at half time anyway.

I think that's a big part of the problem though. The bigger the crowd at football, the lighter the touch from police and stewards. So you get the situation where half a dozen slightly boistrous East Fife fans face the full force of the law but 5000 Celtic fans can neck buckfast, snort gear and piss in the streets outside of whatever ground they are visiting while the police stand 50 yards away watching them.

[DukDukGoose]

18 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

A lot of the bother caused at football is caused by the way the fans are treated. Rugby doesn't have that problem, which is my point.

If you had a group of boozed up Rugby fans told to f**k off from a pub because the colour of their shirt, do you think there would be violence? If the same group are physically restrained from entering the ground, do you think there would be violence?

I'm not excusing moron football fans, my point is there's clearly a difference in how fans are treated between sports, and things just spiral from there.

Do you not think there was a reason why they stopped allowing supporters colours in most bars before matches?

[GAD]

Just now, Merkland Red said:

Wishful thinking.

There's no real need for folk to throw drink down their necks at someones house before going to a party or out to clubs (those were the days) but we still do.

If folk genuinely think being able to have a few watered down pints is going to calm the drink culture at football grounds then I think you'd be sorely disappointed.

I don't know, I think it might help. Maybe it's just from my own experience of going to rugby and football, there isn't that urgency at the rugby. Maybe you are right, but I certainly don't think the availability of a pint of watery fosters or whatever at the football is going to make it any worse at least!

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Wishful thinking.

There's no real need for folk to throw drink down their necks at someones house before going to a party or out to clubs (those were the days) but we still do.

If folk genuinely think being able to have a few watered down pints is going to calm the drink culture at football grounds then I think you'd be sorely disappointed.

There is no social benefit to selling drink in grounds. It's about revenue and everything else is window dressing. That said I'm not that bothered and some people would like the choice.

[DukDukGoose]

3 minutes ago, GAD said:

I don't know, I think it might help. Maybe it's just from my own experience of going to rugby and football, there isn't that urgency at the rugby. Maybe you are right, but I certainly don't think the availability of a pint of watery fosters or whatever at the football is going to make it any worse at least!

I'd love to think that a relaxation of the rules would make most just have a relaxed drink whilst they travel to the football but I genuinely feel most would just view it as anything goes.

 

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

There is no social benefit to selling drink in grounds. It's about revenue and everything else is window dressing. That said I'm not that bothered and some people would like the choice.

That's fair enough. No real argument here.