The Goalkeeper - Next Big Problem

[BFTD]

20 minutes ago, velo army said:

Pep, can you at least learn how to multi-quote? It makes you look less like a raving madman. Hth.

A few posters have recently latched on to individual replies as a means to be even more annoying.

Another one started writing everything as a separate sentence too.

They'd never done it up to then.

It was most irritating to read, like a shitty haiku.

You can only assume that was the point.

Perhaps that's what got them emptied.

[LiviLion]

I was trying to think of the young keeper at Aston Villa that was mentioned a couple years ago as being eligible; finally remembered the name and it was Jed Steer, 30 year-old perennial loanee. f**k knows why I thought he was about 22, but he's also out injured in any case.

[RandomGuy.]

On 27/12/2022 at 21:54, BingMcCrosby said:

In terms of young up and coming keepers I think were looking at

Cieran Slicker - man City

June Smith - Newcastle

Vincent Angellini - Watford

Harry Stone - Hearts

All around 19/20. If anyone has any other prospects stick them up.

But really if were not persuading Gunn to come on board. Were looking at getting by with Marshall for as long as possible and hoping one of these guys pushes on and becomes a no1 at a decent level Or getting by with one of the other uninspiring options.

Not a great situation, but thats what it is.

We have Ross Sinclair, 21 and playing regularly for Montrose this season. Had one of the fabled trials at Liverpool a few years back that a lot of youngsters get.

Talk was hes a better prospect than Zander Clark was at the same age, and is in line to be our number one next season all going well with his loan.

On 28/12/2022 at 01:21, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Kelly's a weird one. He doesn't make many howlers but does fairly often let in shots that he should  probably be saving but you can't really blame him for conceding. He balances this out with enough games where he's completely impervious, which is probably a fair trade off for Motherwell but not what you want in at international level. 

Basically, I don't think he'd be blatantly out of his depth but there'd be a clear drop off from Gordon.

I get slated every time i say this, but i think Kellys lack of height hinders him, as he doesnt have the positioning to make up for it.

Sometimes he looks absolutely tiny in the goals.

[2426255]

I don't watch Motherwell regularly enough to put forward an opinion about Liam Kelly in a club context but I'm happy to approach it with an open mind if he is selected to play for Scotland and not prejudge the situation.

[accies1874]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

I get slated every time i say this, but i think Kellys lack of height hinders him, as he doesnt have the positioning to make up for it.

Sometimes he looks absolutely tiny in the goals.

Yeah completely agree with this. I suppose the positioning is more of an issue than the height and it's my biggest gripe with him, but they do kind of go hand in hand. 

[Anfield 1977]

Clark was asked in his first press conference as national manager if he would be approaching players who had retired from international duty to reconsider.

He replied he would not be asking anyone in that category stating it was up to them to contact him should they have a change of heart. This clearly left the door open to Alan McGregor and others to pick up the 'phone but they chose to stay in exile.

The same should be applied with Marshall - it's up to him to ask to be reconsidered. The manager should also be mindful that the goalkeepers who have travelled with the team in Craig Gordons shadow hopeful of a cap in the friendlies with Poland, Austria and Turkey - plus the qualifier at home to Armenia - will now sense an opportunity and may very well tell him to get lost if Marshall gets priority over them.

[Molotov]

2 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Yeah completely agree with this. I suppose the positioning is more of an issue than the height and it's my biggest gripe with him, but they do kind of go hand in hand. 

Andy Goram was not the tallest but was arguably a better keeper than Jim Leighton and even taller goalies like Billy Thomson.

I still reckon Scotland would have qualified out of two World Cup groups had Goram been given the nod over Leighton. Most especially 1990 after Leighton had been dropped by Fergie for the FA cup replay. His confidence was absolutely shot.

[Pocketman]

1 hour ago, Anfield 1977 said:

Clark was asked in his first press conference as national manager if he would be approaching players who had retired from international duty to reconsider.

He replied he would not be asking anyone in that category stating it was up to them to contact him should they have a change of heart. This clearly left the door open to Alan McGregor and others to pick up the 'phone but they chose to stay in exile.

The same should be applied with Marshall - it's up to him to ask to be reconsidered. The manager should also be mindful that the goalkeepers who have travelled with the team in Craig Gordons shadow hopeful of a cap in the friendlies with Poland, Austria and Turkey - plus the qualifier at home to Armenia - will now sense an opportunity and may very well tell him to get lost if Marshall gets priority over them.

a key consideration for Clarke is that by asking Marshall to return, Robbie McCrorie may take the huff. Am sure Clarke will weigh that up long and hard. 

[Gordon EF]

The injury to Craig Gordon has just moved up the timeline for the keeper drought hitting. He doesn't have much choice but to go with a 'decent' Cinch goalie (who's not really up to the standard we want for a scotland keeper) and hope that 1. whoever he chooses ups their game when they pull on a Scotland jersey and 2. one of the young keepers kicking around can develop into the number 1 spot over the next few years.

Kelly, McCrorie and Clark are clearly the ones floating around in Gordon's shadow. I haven't seen enough of them to have a strong opinion on which one it should be but they all seem to be around a similarish level. I don't think any of them are good enough or potentially good enough that Clarke should be overly worried about one fo them taking the huff if he doesn't get picked.

If McCrorie's happy to ride the bench with Rangers, it would be a bit strange if he threw the toys out the pram at having to do the same with Scotland.

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 hours ago, Molotov said:

Andy Goram was not the tallest but was arguably a better keeper than Jim Leighton and even taller goalies like Billy Thomson.

I still reckon Scotland would have qualified out of two World Cup groups had Goram been given the nod over Leighton. Most especially 1990 after Leighton had been dropped by Fergie for the FA cup replay. His confidence was absolutely shot.

Goram had astounding levels of ability, so it wasn't as much as a factor for him. I dont think Kelly is in that category.

[Molotov]

11 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I dont think Kelly is in that category.

Unfortunately that goes without saying. 

[Londonwell]

I see Kelly most weeks and the thought of him playing in an important Scotland match gives me the absolute fear tbh. Especially after his performances this season.

He’s not big enough or imposing enough to ever be up to international football standard. Worryingly his shot stopping, which was very good last season, has taken a real dip this time around.

In saying all that he has absolute dross in front of him in the Well back 4 atm. If it ever did come to it, hopefully with competent defenders in front of him he could rise to the occasion. But na, not gonna be great if it’s a medium term thing. 

[Virtual Insanity]

On 26/12/2022 at 13:00, HalfCutNinja said:

there would have been not even a raised eyelid to any of this 

Certainly not many raised eyelids when you're around. 

[Donathan]

Potential options for March and June (Hopefully Gordon will be back in the autumn):

 

David Marshall/Allan McGregor

Clarke could have a go at persuading either of these two out of international retirement. Both have over 40 caps and are playing every week in the Scottish Premiership. I suspect the former may be more amenable given he only retired recently and three more appearances between March and June would get him into the hall of fame. McGregor's relationship with the SFA is frosty so I think Clarke is less likely to win over him.

 

Angus Gunn

First choice at Norwich but wants to play for England. Best option for us as he's only 26 so it's a futureproof option. Could be our number one for the next decade. Clarke should try and persuade him again but high unlikely that he says yes.

 

Liam Kelly/Zander Clark

Journeymen cinch keepers playing week in, week out (Clark due to Gordon's injury). Both been around the squad in the past year but no caps yet. Neither are great but may be the best option if Marshall/McGregor/Gunn all say no.

 

John McLaughlin/Scott Bain/Craig MacGillivray

Rotting on the bench at Rangers/Celtic/Charlton respectively. 5 caps between them (McLaughlin has 2, Bain has 3, MacGillivray been in a squad before but no caps yet). I think they're better keepers than Kelly and Clark but I'm not sure the gaffer will be hugely keen on throwing a keeper into a competitive international when he's not played in months. If any of the first choices at their clubs get injured in the coming weeks, they suddenly become interesting options.

[craigkillie]

McGregor is finished, wouldn't take him even if he wanted to play for us., which he wouldn't. He's basically shipping two goals a game at this point.

Coming round to the idea that Clark is the best option if we can't convince Marshall to come back and play.

[Donathan]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

McGregor is finished, wouldn't take him even if he wanted to play for us., which he wouldn't. He's basically shipping two goals a game at this point.

Coming round to the idea that Clark is the best option if we can't convince Marshall to come back and play.

I’ve not seen much of Rangers this season so wasn’t aware McGregor’s play had fallen off. Is there any hint of him being dropped for McLaughlin? If that happens then McLaughlin may be in with a shout too. 

[craigkillie]

McLaughlin seemed to start the season as first choice, but was also fairly pish.

[woof!]

Murray Johnson needs to be in this conversation. He looks very good and for me has looked the most promising keeper out of the various others that have emerged at various Scotland levels in the last few years.

[Skyline Drifter]

On 26/12/2022 at 19:29, BFTD said:

Dykes turned Australia down, did he not? From what I understand, he only considered Oz because he didn't know if he'd get a game for us.

McTominay's been quoted as saying he always wanted to play for Scotland too.

I'm not sure where you've got that about Dykes from. He was born in Australia and raised in Australia. His sister won Commonwealth Gold for Australia. He absolutely considered himself Australian without a doubt until he became a first team regular in the Scottish Championship with us and it began to be queried. By the time he moved to Livi he had both Australia and Scotland courting him and made a decision based on the fact he was by then married with a Scottish born child and living in Dumfries and didn't see himself returning to Australia permanently. Plus Scotland is probably still more high profile even if Australia are more likely to make World Cups.

He did turn Australia down but I expect if he'd had to make the decision a couple of years earlier when his own circumstances were different he'd have chosen Australia. He's always had both a British and Australian passport but when he first came to us he listed his nationality as Australian first.

[Skyline Drifter]

On 30/12/2022 at 14:11, Anfield 1977 said:

Clark was asked in his first press conference as national manager if he would be approaching players who had retired from international duty to reconsider.

He replied he would not be asking anyone in that category stating it was up to them to contact him should they have a change of heart. This clearly left the door open to Alan McGregor and others to pick up the 'phone but they chose to stay in exile.

The same should be applied with Marshall - it's up to him to ask to be reconsidered. The manager should also be mindful that the goalkeepers who have travelled with the team in Craig Gordons shadow hopeful of a cap in the friendlies with Poland, Austria and Turkey - plus the qualifier at home to Armenia - will now sense an opportunity and may very well tell him to get lost if Marshall gets priority over them.

The answer may change when there's such a drop off in standard of alternative. I may be wrong but I thought when Marshall "retired" he said he would remain available for emergencies.

On 30/12/2022 at 15:27, KingRocketman II said:

a key consideration for Clarke is that by asking Marshall to return, Robbie McCrorie may take the huff. Am sure Clarke will weigh that up long and hard. 

And do what? Turn himself Welsh? If he takes the huff, he takes the huff. McCrorie, as much as I think he's a real talent, is the least of our concerns right now. He's not played a first team in God knows how long. The one who might reasonably take the huff is Kelly. Can't say I'm massively bothered if he does.

21 hours ago, craigkillie said:

McGregor is finished, wouldn't take him even if he wanted to play for us., which he wouldn't. He's basically shipping two goals a game at this point.

Coming round to the idea that Clark is the best option if we can't convince Marshall to come back and play.

This. Absolutely this. Much depends on the prognosis of Gordon. If he's got a chance of being back in the later part of the year and we need a No 1 to cover the rest of this season then we should be asking David Marshall. If he says no then it's likely Clark is the next best option. If the general opinion is Gordon's not coming back that may change the thinking though with a new keeper needed for next season anyway assuming Marshall is unlikely to come back in the longer term. Then we probably may as well blood Clark / Kelly now (hopefully the former).

3 hours ago, woof! said:

Murray Johnson needs to be in this conversation. He looks very good and for me has looked the most promising keeper out of the various others that have emerged at various Scotland levels in the last few years.

He needs to be no such thing. He's a good prospect but he's 18 years old (and only just turned 18 at that). He should be nowhere near a conversation about Scotland's first team national keeper right now.