The Goalkeeper - Next Big Problem

[Skyline Drifter]

On 29/09/2022 at 23:18, BingMcCrosby said:

He was very good for morton, cant see him as a Scotland keeper tho. Hes nowhere near good enough for that.

He was okay for Morton. Better than he was at Dundee for sure and better than anyone expected him to be. They wanted to keep him but he was hardly a world beater, getting a regular game for a Championship side who finished mid-table after a good run when they changed manager. He punched one into his own net against us. Nobody was falling over themselves to sign him either and the season was already underway before he finally latched on to a role as Livi's new "Gary Maley".

In a list of potential goalkeepers for Scotland when Craig Gordon chucks it, Jack Hamilton should be nowhere near the discussion.

 

[ATLIS]

4 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He was okay for Morton. Better than he was at Dundee for sure and better than anyone expected him to be. They wanted to keep him but he was hardly a world beater, getting a regular game for a Championship side who finished mid-table after a good run when they changed manager. He punched one into his own net against us. Nobody was falling over themselves to sign him either and the season was already underway before he finally latched on to a role as Livi's new "Gary Maley".

In a list of potential goalkeepers for Scotland when Craig Gordon chucks it, Jack Hamilton should be nowhere near the discussion.

 

Funnily enough, we had him in on trial when we knew Stryjek was going, to get a shot at a contract as first choice. He failed and left, it's telling that he's willing to come back and basically take up a role as backup to the backup. He's only managed that as we want to get minutes for Schwake, in reality he's a 4th choice goalkeeper. It's him and Konovalov fighting it out for minutes in the reserve league.

Konovalov was the starting keeper for our colt team in the Challenge Cup, which again, says a lot. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

He was okay for Morton. Better than he was at Dundee for sure and better than anyone expected him to be. They wanted to keep him but he was hardly a world beater, getting a regular game for a Championship side who finished mid-table after a good run when they changed manager. He punched one into his own net against us. Nobody was falling over themselves to sign him either and the season was already underway before he finally latched on to a role as Livi's new "Gary Maley".

In a list of potential goalkeepers for Scotland when Craig Gordon chucks it, Jack Hamilton should be nowhere near the discussion.

 

How many games did you watch him play for Morton?

No he wasn't a world beater, in all my time watching morton we have never had close to a world beater. But for us and Championship standards, he was very good. Best keeper we have had for a long time tbh.

[Skyline Drifter]

33 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

How many games did you watch him play for Morton?

No he wasn't a world beater, in all my time watching morton we have never had close to a world beater. But for us and Championship standards, he was very good. Best keeper we have had for a long time tbh.

About 10 I think. 

But I've watched 'Championship standard' football for most of the last 20 odd years. Jack Hamilton isnt 'very good' by that marker, particularly outside one surprisingly decent season at Morton. You had Robbie McCrorie there about 4 years ago. He was twice the keeper, even as a teenager.

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, Skyline Drifter said:

About 10 I think. 

But I've watched 'Championship standard' football for most of the last 20 odd years. Jack Hamilton isnt 'very good' by that marker, particularly outside one surprisingly decent season at Morton. You had Robbie McCrorie there about 4 years ago. He was twice the keeper, even as a teenager.

Well fair enough, I thought he was very good for us. McCrorie also, but it looks like he's maybe not improved since then.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Well fair enough, I thought he was very good for us. McCrorie also, but it looks like he's maybe not improved since then.

To be fair, I didn't realise you were a Morton fan or I wouldn't have bothered giving you a view on him. You'll have seen him far more than me, though it's still true to say I'm not judging him on one game.

McCrorie was outstanding when he moved on to us the following year. I don't know what Livi did to him but it clearly didn't work out for him there. He really needs to get out playing regular football now though. If he's not promised being Rangers 1st team keeper next season he needs to get away and find somewhere at as high a level as possible that he can be. Appreciate he probably thought in the summer he'd be no 2 there minimum before McGregor's retirement u-turn. This is surely McGregor's last season though and McLaughlin surely isn't anybody's long term solution. Unless he gets an opportunity to show what he can do though it's probably more likely Rangers will sign a "name" experienced keeper rather than give the gloves to McCrorie.

[Ludo*1]

Jack Hamilton won PotY for Morton last season but he's an utterly fucking hopeless keeper in general. 

He couldn't handle the pressure at Dens so God knows how he'd cope with pressure at a national level. Could honestly say never for one moment did I see a keeper in him in his 3 seasons with us. Consistently threw the ball in the net and there were quite a few YT horror show compilations that seem to have been deleted.

I think if you polled the Dundee fanbase, 75% would suggest that he was the worst keeper we've ever had except on a one off game basis.

Scott Bain would be a much better shite goalkeeper to tout if we really are scraping the barrell. Think he's on par with Zander Clark personally but realistically, neither are anywhere good enough IMO. The best we've got behind Gordon at the moment is probably McLaughlin who is distinctly average himself then it's just various different levels of shite.

[The Wrong Car]

57 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

McCrorie was outstanding when he moved on to us the following year. I don't know what Livi did to him but it clearly didn't work out for him there. He really needs to get out playing regular football now though. 

McCrorie at Livi was a very "OF Youth Player" type of signing. It was clear he had some good attributes which put him at those clubs, however when the going got tough he was nowhere near strong enough mentally or in taking command of situation culminating in a disasterclass against Killie. Given he struggled to cope in a run of games when Livi were coasting it's pretty clear he'll have needed to drastically improved that to be near the Rangers and Scotland jersey as more that an stop-gap.

I'd say he got more than enough opportunities, firstly as a undisputed no.1 then in rotation with Stryjek, given most fans weren't happy he re-signed in the summer. 

[ATLIS]

Liam Kelly is clear by some distance in the running I'd reckon. He's miles ahead the likes of McCrorie and Hamilton, uniquely all 3 have been with Livi. Kelly is only 26 as well

[Skyline Drifter]

2 hours ago, The Wrong Car said:

McCrorie at Livi was a very "OF Youth Player" type of signing. It was clear he had some good attributes which put him at those clubs, however when the going got tough he was nowhere near strong enough mentally or in taking command of situation culminating in a disasterclass against Killie. Given he struggled to cope in a run of games when Livi were coasting it's pretty clear he'll have needed to drastically improved that to be near the Rangers and Scotland jersey as more that an stop-gap.

I'd say he got more than enough opportunities, firstly as a undisputed no.1 then in rotation with Stryjek, given most fans weren't happy he re-signed in the summer. 

Well yes, like I said, no idea what Livi did to him. There was no evidence of that mentality in his time with us, nor with Morton as far as I know. The one time he made a rip roaring arse of something in his entire loan spell (sold a couple of goals v Partick Thistle to turn a lead into a loss) he was back as good as ever the next week.

49 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Liam Kelly is clear by some distance in the running I'd reckon. He's miles ahead the likes of McCrorie and Hamilton, uniquely all 3 have been with Livi. Kelly is only 26 as well

As already said, Hamilton shouldn't even be in this conversation. And almost by default Kelly's got himself into 2nd spot now. McLaughlin's not even an established club No 1 and Clark's taken himself out of the immediate picture by settling for being Gordon's club understudy.

If Gordon picks up a significant injury I'd be trying to tempt Marshall into helping us out for a game or two before I'd be calling on Kelly though.

[Bing.McCrosby]

The situation looking to the future is pretty worrying tbh.

Just checked up on Cieran Slicker from man City, hes on loan at Rochdale in league 2 and hasn't played a game all season. Perhaps he's injured or something, or most probably just shite.

If anyone on here is any good in sticks it might be time to step up

[Clown Job]

Wish I never read this thread, didn’t realise just how grim things are looking for us 

[Pie Of The Month]

I was just having a nosey at the teams ranked around us for the euro 2024 qualifiers to see what their goalkeeping situations are like. McLaughlin and Kelly might not be ideal once Gordon retires but there's a number of pot 2 and pot 3 teams who seem to cope with goalkeepers that are either average at best or who don't play regularly at club level.

Pot 2
France - Hugo Lloris
Austria - New manager seems to have decided on Lindner who is 33 and plays for Sion who are 5th in the Swiss league rather than Bachmann who I think was first choice back when we played them.
Czechia - Vaclik steady enough goalkeeper who plays regularly for Olympiakos
England - Pickford and Ramsdale
Wales - Hennessey who is Forest's backup and has played far more for Wales than at club level in the past 3 or 4 years
Israel - Marciano formerly of Hibs
Bosnia - Sehic plays regularly for Konyaspor in Turkey
Serbia - Have recently been picking between Torino's first choice and Sevilla's back up
Finland - Hradecky, regular first choice for Bayer Leverkusen

Pot 3
Ukraine - Buschchan of Dynamo Kyiv seemed to be first choice but was injured for the recent games and didn't look great in June. 2nd choice is Lunin the Real Madrid backup
Iceland - Runarsson who is out the picture at Arsenal and on loan to Alanyaspor
Norway - First choice seems to be Nyland who was backup at Villa, Norwich and Bournemouth the last few seasons before finishing last season playing for Reading. Was without a club until Leipzig signed him as backup at the weekend because of injury
Slovenia - Jan Oblak at Atletico Madrid
Ireland - Gavin Bazunu at Southampton
Albania - Berisha backup at Torino
Montenegro - Mijatovic is out playing in Saudi Arabia
Romania - Nita who now seems to be Sparta Prague's backup
Sweden - Olsen, Villa backup
Armenia - Yurchenko first choice for Pyunik in Armenia

I'm sure I'll have missed a world class goalkeeper who has just been injured over the past few international windows in my quick cross referencing of Wiki and Soccerway but having an excellent goalkeeper seems to be the exception rather than the rule once you get beyond the big countries that are pot 1 or top end of pot 2.

[The Wrong Car]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well yes, like I said, no idea what Livi did to him.

Played him at the highest level he's consistently played at, despite the fact he was chucking goals in on a regular basis?

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

There was no evidence of that mentality in his time with us, nor with Morton as far as I know. The one time he made a rip roaring arse of something in his entire loan spell (sold a couple of goals v Partick Thistle to turn a lead into a loss) he was back as good as ever the next week.

Given the jump from domestic to international football, and the fact McCrorie struggled with a move to a higher division, I'm not sure if his good form at Championship level three years ago followed by a few fleeting appearances at Ibrox can be used to show he's developed that mentality enough to be in with a shout of the Scotland jersey. 

[BFTD]

Any recent news on Maxwell Blackpool?

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, The Wrong Car said:

Given the jump from domestic to international football, and the fact McCrorie struggled with a move to a higher division, I'm not sure if his good form at Championship level three years ago followed by a few fleeting appearances at Ibrox can be used to show he's developed that mentality enough to be in with a shout of the Scotland jersey. 

I'd love to agree, but I think the whole point of the thread is we don't really have many alternatives when it comes to future keepers. So the way things stand, in future hes definitely in with a shout of making the squad or team.

[The Wrong Car]

12 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I'd love to agree, but I think the whole point of the thread is we don't really have many alternatives when it comes to future keepers. So the way things stand, in future hes definitely in with a shout of making the squad or team.

A fair point, however I'd say McCrorie isn't really doing enough to warrant being in the conversation. He's no longer young enough to be seen as a prospect, given we may have other keepers at big clubs by the time Gordon retires, and he's not moved on like Liam Kelly to get first team football. Kelly's only two years older than McCrorie as well anyway

[Bing.McCrosby]

Just now, The Wrong Car said:

A fair point, however I'd say McCrorie isn't really doing enough to warrant being in the conversation. He's no longer young enough to be seen as a prospect, given we may have other keepers at big clubs by the time Gordon retires, and he's not moved on like Liam Kelly to get first team football. Kelly's only two years older than McCrorie as well anyway

Yeah it depends on how they both progress, tbh neither look like there going to be a good international keeper tho.

Weve got to be hoping someone emerges. There was the guy Vincent Angelini who was highly rated and went from celtic to Watford. I remember reading at the time he could play for Italy as well though. I just done a bit of checking and he's 19 now and doesn't look like he's playing internationally in any youth squads.

He might even be shite

But thats how desperate the keeper situation is!!

[The Wrong Car]

14 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Yeah it depends on how they both progress, tbh neither look like there going to be a good international keeper tho.

Weve got to be hoping someone emerges. There was the guy Vincent Angelini who was highly rated and went from celtic to Watford. I remember reading at the time he could play for Italy as well though. I just done a bit of checking and he's 19 now and doesn't look like he's playing internationally in any youth squads.

He might even be shite

But thats how desperate the keeper situation is!!

Agreed, I'd say it's between an experienced domestic keeper (Kelly/Clark) or a new prospect kicking about the fringes of a big club. McCrorie won't be the in the latter category so he's best trying to get in the first.

[SpoonTon]

On 13/10/2022 at 13:14, Skyline Drifter said:

To be fair, I didn't realise you were a Morton fan or I wouldn't have bothered giving you a view on him. You'll have seen him far more than me, though it's still true to say I'm not judging him on one game.

McCrorie was outstanding when he moved on to us the following year. I don't know what Livi did to him but it clearly didn't work out for him there. He really needs to get out playing regular football now though. If he's not promised being Rangers 1st team keeper next season he needs to get away and find somewhere at as high a level as possible that he can be. Appreciate he probably thought in the summer he'd be no 2 there minimum before McGregor's retirement u-turn. This is surely McGregor's last season though and McLaughlin surely isn't anybody's long term solution. Unless he gets an opportunity to show what he can do though it's probably more likely Rangers will sign a "name" experienced keeper rather than give the gloves to McCrorie.

Hamilton had his two worst performances of the season at Palmerston, so you're view is understandable, but overwise he was very good - better than McCrorie was IMO (although I was less sold on McCrorie than other Morton fans). Technically he looked like an excellent 'keeper, but it in small number of howlers (mostly at QotS) I could see why he was so bad at Dundee. There is the potential for bad errors there, and that could easily snowball into hopeless form. A bit like Colin Stewart, who managed to win PotY awards for us one year, but is also remembered as one of our worst ever goalkeepers - some effort, that. 

I don't think McCrorie has been tested enough at a decent level to know how good he'll end up being, but I'm sceptical. Hamilton shouldn't be in the discussion. His tendency to errors is exposed too much at a higher level.