Time to go Steve Clarke

[2426255]

59 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

Slovakia, Slovenia, Ireland, Wales and Iceland have clearly outperformed us. Our “peers” in international football have largely done better than us when it comes to qualifying for tournaments and making it past the first round. Hence why you saying “it’s not fair to expect more” is a load of shite.

It’s incredibly ironic for someone so condescending to so consistently miss the point. Your response to people saying we’re underperforming is to quote past results. Yes, those are the results that people are saying we’ve underperformed in, thanks for proving the point. It isn’t that difficult to grasp.

Our results under Steve Clarke is the point. Other failures in the past shouldn't be held against him and our recent run of results are within realistic expectations for anyone in touch with reality. We are on a par with the teams in pot 3. So this is all nonsense about us expecting to beat Austria, Israel, Czech Republic and Croatia - We might beat them, but how can we realistically go into these games expecting to.

If Steve Clarke had been in charge since 2000 then I could maybe see your point, but he hasn't and In fact the one time we have made it to a major tournament he was in charge.

Edited September 3, 2021 by 2426255

[forameus]

1 hour ago, No_Problemo said:

Why would qualification be even close to being over if we got six points in the next two games? It would leave us in a good position. 

Qualification, as in for the World Cup itself, is now a massive longshot.  If you don't win your group, you're facing a play-off at best, and unless we turn it around massively it'll likely be unseeded.  The playoffs are still realistic, and would probably represent a decent campaign even if we got put out, but getting there is barely even half the battle in the new format.

[lubo_blaha]

Qualification, as in for the World Cup itself, is now a massive longshot.  If you don't win your group, you're facing a play-off at best, and unless we turn it around massively it'll likely be unseeded.  The playoffs are still realistic, and would probably represent a decent campaign even if we got put out, but getting there is barely even half the battle in the new format.

Some on this thread will tell you that play-offs are a breeze and all you need to do is fluke a couple of penalty shootouts [emoji1]

[No_Problemo]

1 hour ago, forameus said:

Qualification, as in for the World Cup itself, is now a massive longshot.  If you don't win your group, you're facing a play-off at best, and unless we turn it around massively it'll likely be unseeded.  The playoffs are still realistic, and would probably represent a decent campaign even if we got put out, but getting there is barely even half the battle in the new format.

Aye, good point - we would be in a very good position to make the playoff, as opposed to qualify. 

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, 2426255 said:

 

That's why we can't demand to be beating teams such as Austria, Czech Republic, England, Croatia and Denmark even at home. 

Who, seriously who, on here or otherwise, is making any such demands?

[Lex]

Who, seriously who, on here or otherwise, is making any such demands?

Basically he’s saying we are shite and we should be happy with being shite cause some other teams are also shite, I think.

[2426255]

I just think a few people on here need their expectations adjusted.

Specifically, the people who think we have a better team than Austria because they have only heard of Alaba at Real Madrid and Sabitzer at Bayern and consider the rest of the Austria team as no marks or look at the Israel team and only know of Zahavi at PSV and Solomon at Shakhtar and consider the rest of the Israel team as no marks and on the other hand think because we have a few players playing at English Premier League clubs and some young promising players that we should be beating these teams at home and getting something away.

Then reality hits home when we don't get the results and idiotic calls come out for the manager to be sacked. That's all I'm saying.

Edited September 3, 2021 by 2426255

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

I just think a few people on here need their expectations adjusted.

Specifically, the people who think we have a better team than Austria because they have only heard of Alaba at Real Madrid and Sabitzer at Bayern and consider the rest of the Austria team as no marks or look at the Israel team and only know of Zahavi at PSV and Solomon at Shakhtar and consider the rest of the Israel team as no marks and on the other hand think because we have a few players playing at English Premier League clubs and some young promising players that we should be beating these teams at home and getting something away.

Then reality hits home when we don't get the results and idiotic calls come out for the manager to be sacked. That's all I'm saying.

Again, I'm not seeing much evidence of people saying these things.

It's perfectly possible to be dissatisfied with how we're doing, whilst having a pretty decent grasp of our standing, both in historical and current terms.

The smugly patronising idea that any moaning must come from a place of delusion or ignorance really bugs me.

[2426255]

On 02/09/2021 at 09:37, Lex said:

 

You really think that not beating Israel in two attempts is ok?

 

 

On 02/09/2021 at 09:40, Day of the Lords said:

The notion that a draw and a defeat away to Israel is somehow acceptable is fucking wild. We absolutely shat it at home to the Czechs who we should be capable of getting at least a point against at home. I'm not demanding Clarke be binned, but fucking hell, how many games is he going to toss away by only realising his starting formation isn't working when we're 1 or 2-0 down?

 

On 02/09/2021 at 09:50, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

If Israel were any good, they wouldn't be perennial fourth seeds or below.  

In the last qualification campaign, they came 5th behind *checks notes* North Macedonia, and Slovenia.  They are a mediocre middling European side at best.  Two of their three wins were against the mighty Latvia, a country that are 7th worst in Europe, just above Andorra.

Without Zahavi, they'd be a tier 5 nation.

 

22 hours ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Israel have a few very good players who would walk into our team. Zahavi, Dabbur and definitely Solomon. But overall were a much stronger squad, we have alot more players who would walk into their team. The fact we can never find a way to outplay them under clarke is damming. 

There's a few Israel ones. I'll get the Austria and Czech ones later.

Edited September 3, 2021 by 2426255

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

 

There's a few Israel ones. I'll get the Austria and Czech ones later.

It's not a question of highlighting 'no marks' in suggesting we should have a better recent record against Israel.

It's a reflection of the fact that they're ranked below us and have no history of qualifying for tournaments.  During the spell when they've caused us problems, they've not had many other good results.

[Dunning1874]

You can easily flip this "what do you expect how can anyone possibly do better??!!!!" tantrum round the other way, and ask if it's reasonable to expect no wins v Israel in four attempts.

[Salt n Vinegar]

I don't think our recent performances, with the possible exception of England at Wembley, have been much good. Tbh the international side's qualification campaigns (self-evidently) have been dug meat for decades. (Yeah, life was good as a Scotland fan from the mid 70s onwards!) I'm not really a Steve Clarke fan, but it seems to me that there's not much in the way of a queue of replacements.  Any suggestions? If not, we'll just have to carry on, hoping for the best. Quite sad, but we should be used to it by now. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

3 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I don't think our recent performances, with the possible exception of England at Wembley, have been much good. Tbh the international side's qualification campaigns (self-evidently) have been dug meat for decades. (Yeah, life was good as a Scotland fan from the mid 70s onwards!) I'm not really a Steve Clarke fan, but it seems to me that there's not much in the way of a queue of replacements.  Any suggestions? If not, we'll just have to carry on, hoping for the best. Quite sad, but we should be used to it by now. 

In the entire world you think Steve Clarke is the best manager who would take the job?

Its of course not true, and there's no reason for us to feel trapped. Results keep going the way they are and the sfa will be put under pressure.

Lucky they just dished out that new contract eh 

[Norrie82]

For a football mad nation it amazes me that we have achieved next to nothing For 23 years. We have been out performed by so many nations and sadly we don’t look like ever getting back on the world stage. Sweden 1990 - who would have thought this would be our last World Cup win. 

[BlackandGold]

Reading this thread is absolutely depressing. The pure acceptance of mediocrity and lack of any self-belief is probably a contributing factor as to why we’ve achieved 1 qualification in 23yrs.
How any can think 1 win in 10 is acceptable is beyond me, I think with Clarke’s dogshit defensive tactics (which don’t even seem to be working) you’ve all been brainwashed into thinking we have no good players and couldn’t possibly be performing any better than we are.

[2426255]

18 minutes ago, BlackandGold said:

Reading this thread is absolutely depressing. The pure acceptance of mediocrity and lack of any self-belief is probably a contributing factor as to why we’ve achieved 1 qualification in 23yrs.
How any can think 1 win in 10 is acceptable is beyond me, I think with Clarke’s dogshit defensive tactics (which don’t even seem to be working) you’ve all been brainwashed into thinking we have no good players and couldn’t possibly be performing any better than we are.

We have also performed poorly for years prior to Steve Clarke taking over. The players are better, we have some average players, some good players, but not too many great players that would take the teams standard beyond Pot 2 teams who also have good players with some great players. 

[wastecoatwilly]

On 03/09/2021 at 10:55, Gordopolis said:

The 96, 98 team was famously stingey in defence. IIRC we at one point had the best defensive record in Europe or the world.
Shite up front though, definitely.

You could say the 96,98 teams and this team we have now the strength comes from the middle of the park.
I think the small difference is Boyd could play either side where Tierney or Robertson can't strange for professional footballers.
I think Hanley is turning into a Hendry at the back but I think we have more quality in the middle of the park now.
 

Edited September 4, 2021 by wastecoatwilly

[Salt n Vinegar]

6 hours ago, BlackandGold said:

Reading this thread is absolutely depressing. The pure acceptance of mediocrity and lack of any self-belief is probably a contributing factor as to why we’ve achieved 1 qualification in 23yrs.
How any can think 1 win in 10 is acceptable is beyond me, I think with Clarke’s dogshit defensive tactics (which don’t even seem to be working) you’ve all been brainwashed into thinking we have no good players and couldn’t possibly be performing any better than we are.

I'm certainly not saying that I'm happy to accept the recent record in internationals, it's just that having an international team without a couple of genuine goalscoring threats leaves us pretty exposed in qualifying groups.  I looked on Wikipedia and jeez, it is sad. If the stuff I looked at is accutate, the last Scotland player who averaged more than a goal a game was Hughie Gallacher in the 1920s to 30s.  Our Greats (and even our "not too bads") record is pretty naff. Law managed just over 1 goal every 2 games, and Dalglish, McCoist, Miller, McFadden and Johnston were well below that.  We just don't carry enough of a threat up front.  

A good example will be tonight's game.  I'd love 5-0. As it stands, I'll accept a 1-0 win to get us to Austria with a chance of staying alive in the qualification lottery. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

And I have no idea why some of that text is in red! 

[Gordopolis]

I'm certainly not saying that I'm happy to accept the recent record in internationals, it's just that having an international team without a couple of genuine goalscoring threats leaves us pretty exposed in qualifying groups.  I looked on Wikipedia and jeez, it is sad. If the stuff I looked at is accutate, the last Scotland player who averaged more than a goal a game was Hughie Gallacher in the 1920s to 30s.  Our Greats (and even our "not too bads") record is pretty naff. Law managed just over 1 goal every 2 games, and Dalglish, McCoist, Miller, McFadden and Johnston were well below that.  We just don't carry enough of a threat up front.  
A good example will be tonight's game.  I'd love 5-0. As it stands, I'll accept a 1-0 win to get us to Austria with a chance of staying alive in the qualification lottery. 

Law's record is tip top - 1 in 2 at international level is the hallmark of a strong international striker.

Hughie Gallagher was - from what I've read about him - both a great player and a complex character, but his record of nearly a goal per game is almost unheard of - Gerd Muller and maybe a few others aside. So it's probably not fair to ask why no other Scotland players have managed this (not sure if you were asking this question, so apologies if I've misunderstood).

But yeah in my time watching Scotland we've been scrapping and scraping goals, and we've only ever had a handful of players even reaching double figures - McCoist, McFadden, Miller, Fletcher, McGinn... I think that's it in, like, 30 years? It didn't seem so bad when Miller and McFadden were both in their prime and scoring together circa 2006/7, but that feel good spell only lasted a year or two.

In summary: can we clone the Lawman?