SPFL Review

[Dons_1988]

6 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Part of the problem is the nature of the clubs themselves. Scottish football clubs are essentially pretty small businesses and, beyond people who are just attracted to working in football, they're not likely to attract the best and brightest.

The brother of a guy I used to go and watch Hearts with years ago interviewed for a finance position at Hearts but knocked it back because, even though he was a Hearts fan himself, the company was essentially a small one offering little real career progression. He knocked the job back and now has some kind of big-shot job in America with a big bank.

I'd imagine when it comes to things like marketing etc it is more or less the same. Scottish football clubs are simply going to struggle to attract the best people. Football has an out-sized place in society, but it's not really a big industry at all.

So, the decisions being made by clubs (and we all see our clubs make mad decisions all the time) are being made by people who are not top-tier people in most roles. Add together the clubs' rabid self-interest and the competitive nature of the industry, and it's basically no surprise we get nothing done.

Whatever team you support, the abysmal nature of the discourse around the 2020 vote exposed how thick a lot of people making these decisions (at my club as well as others) really are.

Basically, we've got shite people running things, so things will mainly be shite.

Hearts put out an advert recently for a fairly senior position in their finance team. The salary was eye opening as to the level of experience they were after. 

[VincentGuerin]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Hearts put out an advert recently for a fairly senior position in their finance team. The salary was eye opening as to the level of experience they were after. 

In what sense? I don't keep up with these things. Was it shite?

[G51]

7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Part of the problem is the nature of the clubs themselves. Scottish football clubs are essentially pretty small businesses and, beyond people who are just attracted to working in football, they're not likely to attract the best and brightest.

The brother of a guy I used to go and watch Hearts with years ago interviewed for a finance position at Hearts but knocked it back because, even though he was a Hearts fan himself, the company was essentially a small one offering little real career progression. He knocked the job back and now has some kind of big-shot job in America with a big bank.

I'd imagine when it comes to things like marketing etc it is more or less the same. Scottish football clubs are simply going to struggle to attract the best people. Football has an out-sized place in society, but it's not really a big industry at all.

So, the decisions being made by clubs (and we all see our clubs make mad decisions all the time) are being made by people who are not top-tier people in most roles. Add together the clubs' rabid self-interest and the competitive nature of the industry, and it's basically no surprise we get nothing done.

Whatever team you support, the abysmal nature of the discourse around the 2020 vote exposed how thick a lot of people making these decisions (at my club as well as others) really are.

Basically, we've got shite people running things, so things will mainly be shite.

This is fair. The executives at Rangers for example are absolutely terrible. A business that will likely hit a nine-figure turnover this year and next is being run by Specky Robertson, James Bisgrove of Sportemongo fame, and the joke figure of David Graham. Celtics executives aren’t any better, and these are the clubs that actually make money.

[VincentGuerin]

7 minutes ago, G51 said:

This is fair. The executives at Rangers for example are absolutely terrible. A business that will likely hit a nine-figure turnover this year and next is being run by Specky Robertson, James Bisgrove of Sportemongo fame, and the joke figure of David Graham. Celtics executives aren’t any better, and these are the clubs that actually make money.

The Old Firm are a good example of this. They attract Billy Big Baws types to themselves like flies to shite. And it's easy to see why.

Being involved with running Rangers or Celtic is a hugely prestigious thing in Scottish society. It will open doors, get your name in the paper, impress the neighbours etc. It'll attract a type. But a type that wouldn't necessarily make it in the real business world. Obviously, there'll be exceptions. But many key roles will be filled by people who wouldn't get a job with that prestige in the real world.

The same applies down the ladder. Fitba has status, but people who are serious pros can get better work elsewhere. If your finance and marketing departments are sub-standard, then you can't expect great results. And why spend on marketing when you need a centre-half?

So, we get what we get. And it shows.

Edited August 16, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[coprolite]

4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

The Old Firm are a good example of this. They attract Billy Big Baws types to themselves like flies to shite. And it's easy to see why.

Being involved with running Rangers or Celtic is a hugely prestigious thing in Scottish society. It will open doors, get your name in the paper, impress the neighbours etc. It'll attract a type. But a type that wouldn't necessarily make it in the real business world. Obviously, there'll be exceptions. But many key roles will be filled by people who wouldn't get a job with that prestige in the real world.

The same applies down the ladder. Fitba has status, but people who are serious pros can get better work elsewhere. If your finance and marketing departments are sub-standard, then you can't expect great results. And why spend on marketing when you need a centre-half?

So, we get what we get. And it shows.

This is a great argument for pooling that marketing budget.

One team with a £1m budget instead of 40 (assuming the OF wouldn't be interested) with budgets ranging from the goodwill of volunteers to several tens of thousands could potentially ne much more effective. 

It doesn't have to be under the spfl either and could be a few different umbrellas. 

Could that work?  I don't know. 

[Alert Mongoose]

It does seem concerning that the clubs are paying a member of the admin staff circa £400k.

[Busta Nut]

18 minutes ago, G51 said:

these are the clubs that actually make money.

Rangers make money?

[Alert Mongoose]

Just now, Busta Nut said:

Rangers make money?

Yes. The problem seems to be spending more than they make.

[Dons_1988]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

In what sense? I don't keep up with these things. Was it shite?

Yep

[craigkillie]

41 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

It does seem concerning that the clubs are paying a member of the admin staff circa £400k.

They are paying for a human shield. You just have to look at how many people blame "Doncaster" for everything from sponsorship deals to ticket prices to disciplinary issues to know that this is a successful strategy for the clubs.

[Leith Green]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Hearts put out an advert recently for a fairly senior position in their finance team. The salary was eye opening as to the level of experience they were after. 

Hibs also advertised a couple of posts recently on poor money............but got loads of applicants. Some people just want to work in fitba, and if its for their own team, all the better.

44 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

It does seem concerning that the clubs are paying a member of the admin staff circa £400k.

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

They are paying for a human shield. You just have to look at how many people blame "Doncaster" for everything from sponsorship deals to ticket prices to disciplinary issues to know that this is a successful strategy for the clubs.

I will do it for £200k then, for that money they can call me a useless Hibby b*****d all they like.

[G51]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

They are paying for a human shield. You just have to look at how many people blame "Doncaster" for everything from sponsorship deals to ticket prices to disciplinary issues to know that this is a successful strategy for the clubs.

I’ve seen you make this argument before, but it doesn’t really hold water.
The idea that Doncaster is nothing more than a human shield who handles the press for things the clubs want nothing to do with doesn’t square with what we know about him lobbying clubs to pass/reject resolutions, negotiating TV deals and negotiating sponsorship contracts.

Fans have every right to be furious at the donkey responsible for negotiating terrible contracts for the league.

[Molotov]

2 hours ago, G51 said:

Celtics executives aren’t any better, and these are the clubs that actually make money.

I’m not a Celtic fan, but did Peter Lawwell not do a tremendous job for his club over 15+ years in various roles? I thought he kept a tight ship in terms of financial results and helped deliver success on the pitch despite your club having the second largest budget in Scottish football even when you were reborn. Lawwell may not have been popular with his own fans, yours or even other Scottish club chairmen but he certainly seemed to deliver outstanding financial results for his employers or else the owners would have booted him out.

 

[G51]

4 minutes ago, Molotov said:

I’m not a Celtic fan, but did Peter Lawwell not do a tremendous job for his club over 15+ years in various roles? I thought he kept a tight ship in terms of financial results and helped deliver success on the pitch despite your club having the second largest budget in Scottish football even when you were reborn. Lawwell may not have been popular with his own fans, yours or even other Scottish club chairmen but he certainly seemed to deliver outstanding financial results for his employers or else the owners would have booted him out.

 

He’s also not there anymore.

[Alert Mongoose]

2 hours ago, Leith Green said:

 

I will do it for £200k then, for that money they can call me a useless Hibby b*****d all they like.

£95k and that's my final offer.

[Leith Green]

14 minutes ago, Alert Mongoose said:

£95k and that's my final offer.

Only if it still includes the abuse

[craigkillie]

I’ve seen you make this argument before, but it doesn’t really hold water.
The idea that Doncaster is nothing more than a human shield who handles the press for things the clubs want nothing to do with doesn’t square with what we know about him lobbying clubs to pass/reject resolutions, negotiating TV deals and negotiating sponsorship contracts.
Fans have every right to be furious at the donkey responsible for negotiating terrible contracts for the league.

The clubs vote every single one of these TV deals and sponsorship contracts through, and every single resolution you are talking about is proposed by and voted for a club. The clubs consistently vote to keep Doncaster in his role too. Therefore it is not exactly difficult to identify who is responsible for every single one of those things.

[G51]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The clubs vote every single one of these TV deals and sponsorship contracts through, and every single resolution you are talking about is proposed by and voted for a club. The clubs consistently vote to keep Doncaster in his role too. Therefore it is not exactly difficult to identify who is responsible for every single one of those things.

Yes obviously. But that doesn’t absolve Neil Doncaster of his role in these continual f**k-ups and it’s bizarre that some think he should be let off just because the club chairmen are also total amateurs.

[Insert Amusing Pseudonym]

40 minutes ago, G51 said:

Yes obviously. But that doesn’t absolve Neil Doncaster of his role in these continual f**k-ups and it’s bizarre that some think he should be let off just because the club chairmen are also total amateurs.

The point is though that the clubs are happy with him, and it's them that employ him.

He's not an independent board with autonomous decision making power, so him being the piñata is a role both sides are more than content with.  The fans think he's a dick but he clearly doesn't give a toss.  For 400k i get that

[G51]

1 hour ago, Insert Amusing Pseudonym said:

The point is though that the clubs are happy with him, and it's them that employ him.

He's not an independent board with autonomous decision making power, so him being the piñata is a role both sides are more than content with.  The fans think he's a dick but he clearly doesn't give a toss.  For 400k i get that

I don’t care that the clubs are happy with him. I don’t own any of the football clubs.

He’s part of the problem. If all of a sudden all 42 club owners were replaced by competent, functioning ownership groups, we’d still have a problem with our contracts because the guy negotiating them on our behalf is absolutely shite at it.