Argentina 78: a reappraisal

[craigkillie]

Penalties are still goals, I'm not sure why conceding 4 penalties makes you sound any better. The other two sides in our group swatted them aside comfortably

Iran were comfortably the best team in Asia at the time, but had consistently failed to beat any European (or South American) opponents in the years leading up to the tournament, even in Tehran. In fact, heading into the tournament their only ever win against non-Asian opponents was against Ghana in a friendly a month before the World Cup. Their first ever win against a European team came against Macedonia in 2000.

[Bogbrush1903]

4 hours ago, Mcnpauls said:

I don't think you were flippant at all.  I just think that Rioch and Gemmill showed they weren't past it against Holland. Rioch and Masson did decline quickly after that World Cup, but Gemmill was made captain of Scotland for about another two or three years, including a season in which he was helping Nottingham Forest towards winning the European Cup, as you say.

BTW / Masson's 75 minutes in Argentina would be explained by his poor performance against Peru and then his mad idea of claiming he had taken the same Reactivan as Willy Johnston, even though apparently it wasn't true but he wanted to show solidarity with a mate, which meant that the SFA & McLeod could never have contemplated him playing again.

 

What is baffling was how our playmaker, Masson, was not replaced by our other playmaker, Souness, for the Iran game. McLeod's single worst decision, of quite a lot of bad ones, in that tournament.

Aye, Archie Gemmill he played another 14 times scoring 3 times for Scotland after the World Cup and played in the two crucial away wins in Sweden and Israel for the 1982 World Cup qualifying campaign. Therefore, the evidence contradicts my assertion that he was "past it".

I still think that his best years was in the first-half of the 1970s (1970-1975) where he was key to Derby County's two league titles during this time but only managed nine caps during this period, although unfortunately for him he was competing with Billy Bremner during this time.

However, wasn't it Archie Gemmill that replaced Don Masson ahead of Souness for the Iran game? Are you saying that you would've preferred Souness to play against Iran and for Gemmill to remain on the bench?

[Lurkst]

1 hour ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Aye, Archie Gemmill he played another 14 times scoring 3 times for Scotland after the World Cup and played in the two crucial away wins in Sweden and Israel for the 1982 World Cup qualifying campaign. Therefore, the evidence contradicts my assertion that he was "past it".

Supposedly his international career ended after he asked Jock Stein if he could take some of the boys out "for a few beers".

 

[Marlow]

On 20/12/2021 at 14:36, craigkillie said:

Penalties are still goals, I'm not sure why conceding 4 penalties makes you sound any better. The other two sides in our group swatted them aside comfortably

Iran were comfortably the best team in Asia at the time, but had consistently failed to beat any European (or South American) opponents in the years leading up to the tournament, even in Tehran. In fact, heading into the tournament their only ever win against non-Asian opponents was against Ghana in a friendly a month before the World Cup. Their first ever win against a European team came against Macedonia in 2000.

I see your point, I was just comparing them to us letting in 8 goals in 82 with some very famous and successful players. Sometimes soft penalties get awarded, though, that aren't really a team's fault, as well, which I thought made us in Spain come out quite badly from the comparison.

 

 

[Marlow]

23 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said:

Aye, Archie Gemmill he played another 14 times scoring 3 times for Scotland after the World Cup and played in the two crucial away wins in Sweden and Israel for the 1982 World Cup qualifying campaign. Therefore, the evidence contradicts my assertion that he was "past it".

I still think that his best years was in the first-half of the 1970s (1970-1975) where he was key to Derby County's two league titles during this time but only managed nine caps during this period, although unfortunately for him he was competing with Billy Bremner during this time.

However, wasn't it Archie Gemmill that replaced Don Masson ahead of Souness for the Iran game? Are you saying that you would've preferred Souness to play against Iran and for Gemmill to remain on the bench?

No, I wanted them both to play against Iran, Souness for Masson, Gemmill for Rioch. Some folk thought before that World Cup that Souness and Gemmill should have been the key midfield men due to Rioch and Masson being on dismal form that season. 

[Marlow]

On 20/12/2021 at 20:08, Lurkst said:

Supposedly his international career ended after he asked Jock Stein if he could take some of the boys out "for a few beers".

 

I think it was Hansen and Souness, who arrived late at some squad gathering. The rest of the lads had had a drink that evening and they fancied one, too, Gemmill as captain went to Stein's room to ask if it was alright for them to have a beer and that was him finished.

 

I have heard a few times a rumour that Stein had a female friend in the room, too.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Marlow
typos

[Ewan8472]

On 20/12/2021 at 19:08, Lurkst said:

Supposedly his international career ended after he asked Jock Stein if he could take some of the boys out "for a few beers".

 

IIRC Archie's version was that a certain two players , not my favourites , arrived late and wanted a relaxing nightcap and asked Archie to ask Jock Stein if that would be o.k.

[Narey toe]

Ian Archer on the 1978 World Cup draw at the time: 'the best draw in the world for Scotland. Surely a passport into the last eight. Iran and Peru the two minnows.' How a respected journalist could call the reigning champions of South America 'minnows' is beyond belief.

Don Masson : 'We are certs to go through to the last eight.'

Bruce Rioch: 'We Couldn't have asked for any better. I reckon we can win the first two games then we're through.'

Ally McLeod seemed almost sensible in comparison: 'It couldn't have worked out any better if I'd planned it myself. We must have a fair chance of moving into the later stages.'