carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 33 minutes ago, andyg83 said: On a serious note does the Emily Bridges statement not sum up the other extreme. of this whole debate? Suggesting "genocide" is disgraceful in this context. We are talking about biological males competing in female sport ffs. Surely any sensible person would condemn this? This doesn't help the trans community one bit. https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement’s-ideology-and-practice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg83 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-the-genocidal-nature-of-the-gender-critical-movement’s-ideology-and-practice Your not serious surely. Stopping a male competing against females is genocide? Do you think Emily Bridges rant was even HALF coherent? As I have said before this is the reason the right wing loons are able to points score on this issue. The other side of the debate is just as wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, andyg83 said: Your not serious surely. Stopping a male competing against females is genocide? Do you think Emily Bridges rant was even HALF coherent? As I have said before this is the reason the right wing loons are able to points score on this issue. The other side of the debate is just as wild. I’m merely citing the planet’s foremost authority on the prevention of genocide. The bit of Bridges’ statement I’m interested in was where she says ‘I’ve given my body to science for the last two years and the data will be out soon’. If that concurs to the Canadian research that shows trans women with reduced testosterone don’t have significant advantage then she has a point saying that the ban is political - https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/evidence-does-not-support-trans-athlete-bans-according-to-new-report/ Genocide isn’t simply reducing people in physical number. Although Helen Joyce, the compelling speaker, obviously fancies that angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg83 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: I’m merely citing the planet’s foremost authority on the prevention of genocide. The bit of Bridges’ statement I’m interested in was where she says ‘I’ve given my body to science for the last two years and the data will be out soon’. If that concurs to the Canadian research that shows trans women with reduced testosterone don’t have significant advantage then she has a point saying that the ban is political - https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/evidence-does-not-support-trans-athlete-bans-according-to-new-report/ Genocide isn’t simply reducing people in physical number. Although Helen Joyce, the compelling speaker, obviously fancies that angle. So this is where we are. Defending nonsense and then referencing Helen Joyce for no apparent reason rather than admit Emily Bridges statement was a mile out. "On yer bike" pal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, andyg83 said: So this is where we are. Defending nonsense and then referencing Helen Joyce for no apparent reason rather than admit Emily Bridges statement was a mile out. "On yer bike" pal If you think genocide prevention is nonsense, it says more about you than it does me. I explained the bit of Bridges statement I was interested in. I referenced Joyce as you were fanboying for her a few pages back. Has something changed between then and now that you think ‘both sides are wild’? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg83 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 So you don't think the statement was nuts? Dear goodness. I said I was reading Joyce,s book. Which I also said was a bit of a bore. You will love this article by James Esses today. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-trans-ideology-came-for-therapy/ Don't start moaning it's in the Spectator. It's an interesting read. They guy has every right to feel aggrieved going by this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, andyg83 said: So you don't think the statement was nuts? Dear goodness. I said I was reading Joyce,s book. Which I also said was a bit of a bore. You will love this article by James Esses today. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-trans-ideology-came-for-therapy/ Don't start moaning it's in the Spectator. It's an interesting read. They guy has every right to feel aggrieved going by this. The article seems to be Esses - a guy who was sacked from Childline for telling trans kids they were just confused and now a full time transphobe - appearing to justify to the folks he’s crowdfunded 120k off that he’s in the right, and it doesn’t matter that the UKCP are following long established clinical best practices. I’m presuming he figures they’re going to rinse him in court, but he needs to prep the ground for his next crowdfunder. It’s not that interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg83 Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 43 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: The article seems to be Esses - a guy who was sacked from Childline for telling trans kids they were just confused and now a full time transphobe - appearing to justify to the folks he’s crowdfunded 120k off that he’s in the right, and it doesn’t matter that the UKCP are following long established clinical best practices. I’m presuming he figures they’re going to rinse him in court, but he needs to prep the ground for his next crowdfunder. It’s not that interesting. That's not the conclusion I draw from his story but hey ho. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 This thread seems to have very few folk involved but those that are involved are heavily involved. And back to the squirrels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 4 hours ago, Binos said: It wasn't so much against you The entire subject is an absolute yawnfest and effects an infinitesimal element of society Can't understand why so much debate is afforded to it Unless it's media driven desperately trying to fill column inches for 24hr rolling news, again! Fair enough. I think, in the UK, the media drive for viewers or readers tends to give a higher proportion to the extremes, trying to get the water-cooler moments. Anyway, has this made an appearance yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 6 hours ago, welshbairn said: False advertising, that ain't no gif! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 8 hours ago, carpetmonster said: I’m merely citing the planet’s foremost authority on the prevention of genocide. Who would this be exactly? This is fast approaching Anthony C Pick levels of bigging up complete and utter non-entities, because their Google-searched opinion supports your prior belief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, virginton said: Who would this be exactly? This is fast approaching Anthony C Pick levels of bigging up complete and utter non-entities, because their Google-searched opinion supports your prior belief. The Lemkin Institute, as I’m sure you can read. Them, GenocideWatch and the Auschwitz Institute are the big boys amongst individual entities at the moment, no? ETA - and no, it was reading that statement some months ago that made start thinking of the concept. I was merely rebutting the accusation that referencing genocide was disgraceful, although I do see some similarities to the dehumanization stage in GW’s 10 Stages. Edited May 27, 2023 by carpetmonster -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: The Lemkin Institute, as I’m sure you can read. Them, GenocideWatch and the Auschwitz Institute are the big boys amongst individual entities at the moment, no? Well no, they're really not. https://www.lemkininstitute.com/leadership-team It is a Poundland 'institute' that has been around for the venerable period of, err, six years. Its 'leadership team' meanwhile contains one actual academic - working at something called Keene State College - two PhD candidates and a Masters' candidate. It is no exaggeration to state that Pie and Bovril could produce about five different 'institutes' with greater intellectual clout on each leadership team than this Rossvale-level non-entity. The idea that their moronic intervention constitutes a voice of authority that gender critical stances = genocide is utter nonsense. If you tried had thinking critically about your sources of evidence instead of just selecting in any rubbish that fits your own take, you would have recognised that before. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, virginton said: Well no, they're really not. https://www.lemkininstitute.com/leadership-team It is a Poundland 'institute' that has been around for the venerable period of, err, six years. Its 'leadership team' meanwhile contains one actual academic - working at something called Keene State College - two PhD candidates and a Masters' candidate. It is no exaggeration to state that Pie and Bovril could produce about five different 'institutes' with greater intellectual clout on each leadership team than this Rossvale-level non-entity. The idea that their moronic intervention constitutes a voice of authority that gender critical stances = genocide is utter nonsense. If you tried had thinking critically about your sources of evidence instead of just selecting in any rubbish that fits your own take, you would have recognised that before. As I said, it wasn’t my own take; that was my introduction to the concept. And no, not so much ‘gender critical stances’ as ‘excluding trans people from public life’. As you may also note, I offered no particular stance on Bridges, I only introduced that the assertion wasn’t ridiculous and the concept of ‘trans genocide’ is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: As I said, it wasn’t my own take; that was my introduction to the concept. And no, not so much ‘gender critical stances’ as ‘excluding trans people from public life’. As you may also note, I offered no particular stance on Bridges, I only introduced that the assertion wasn’t ridiculous and the concept of ‘trans genocide’ is out there. I've no idea what any of that word salad has got to do with the post you were responding to: discussing the credibility of your beloved 'Lemkin Institute'. Can you clarify whether four folk (3 who haven't even got a doctorate) running a talking shop for a handful years are indeed "the foremost authority" as you stated? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, virginton said: I've no idea what any of that word salad has got to do with the post you were responding to: discussing the credibility of your beloved 'Lemkin Institute'. Can you clarify whether four folk (3 who haven't even got a doctorate) running a talking shop for a handful years are indeed "the foremost authority" as you stated? I was correcting assumptions you’d made, and if I’m not being rude, I’m not sure I’m going to gauge concepts of credibility according to someone who I don’t think has much. I said ‘premier’ and I was pretty sure they were one of them. Apologies for not passing your stringent semantic tests while on the khazi at 3:30am. Edited May 27, 2023 by carpetmonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, carpetmonster said: I was correcting assumptions you’d made, Mmm nice try champ, but there's only one person whose assumptions have been comprehensively corrected here, and it's definitely not me. Quote I’m not sure I’m going to gauge credibility from someone who I don’t think has any. As we've just seen, your ability to gauge credibility is zero and so your assessment is meaningless. Quote I said ‘premier’ and I was pretty sure they were one of them. Why did you not do a completely basic check of the group you were passing off as "the foremost authority? Spoiler A: Because you and other activists in this toxic debate live in echo chambers in which someone saying the right thing for the cause is more important than their actual credibility. Quote Apologies for not passing your stringent semantic tests while on the khazi at 3:30am. Then stop posting and log out rather than digging an even deeper hole for yourself. It's extremely straightforward stuff. Edited May 27, 2023 by vikingTON 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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