Russian invasion of Ukraine

[TxRover]

The sheer number of MAGA twits parroting Putin’s lines about Ukraine is mind blowing.

Question: What about Ukraine?

Answer: Russia invaded to get the Nazis out of power. They had taken over the first two provinces because there were no Nazis there, but then they had to invade the rest of Ukraine to clear out the Nazis.

Question: So who started the war in Ukraine?

Answer: The West, NATO and the U.S.

Question: But you said Russia invaded Ukraine?

Answer: Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine, but the West started the war. It was those secret labs.

[Marten]

12 hours ago, TxRover said:

The sheer number of MAGA twits parroting Putin’s lines about Ukraine is mind blowing.

Question: What about Ukraine?

Answer: Russia invaded to get the Nazis out of power. They had taken over the first two provinces because there were no Nazis there, but then they had to invade the rest of Ukraine to clear out the Nazis.

Question: So who started the war in Ukraine?

Answer: The West, NATO and the U.S.

Question: But you said Russia invaded Ukraine?

Answer: Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine, but the West started the war. It was those secret labs.

This whole war proves the "horseshoe theory" once again. It's the far-left and far-right that are parroting Putin's propaganda.

[ClydeTon]

12 hours ago, TxRover said:

The sheer number of MAGA twits parroting Putin’s lines about Ukraine is mind blowing.

Question: What about Ukraine?

Answer: Russia invaded to get the Nazis out of power. They had taken over the first two provinces because there were no Nazis there, but then they had to invade the rest of Ukraine to clear out the Nazis.

Question: So who started the war in Ukraine?

Answer: The West, NATO and the U.S.

Question: But you said Russia invaded Ukraine?

Answer: Yes, Russia invaded Ukraine, but the West started the war. It was those secret labs.

Exactly the same as the Afghans' involvement in 9/11 - all in some powerful American's imagination.

Funny that the "freedom-loving patriot" / MAGA types are actively trying to paint America as the bad guys.

[TxRover]

18 minutes ago, ClydeTon said:

Exactly the same as the Afghans' involvement in 9/11 - all in some powerful American's imagination.

Funny that the "freedom-loving patriot" / MAGA types are actively trying to paint America as the bad guys.

 

24 minutes ago, Marten said:

This whole war proves the "horseshoe theory" once again. It's the far-left and far-right that are parroting Putin's propaganda.

Even more fun was they continued and asked:

Question: You don’t trust the COVID vaccine, or any vaccine?

Answer: No, it’s Democrat mind control.

Question: But Trump pushed through the creation of the vaccine?

Answer: Yes, but I still don’t trust those Democrats and Fauci. They want our children, you know!

[Marten]

2 hours ago, TxRover said:

 

Even more fun was they continued and asked:

Question: You don’t trust the COVID vaccine, or any vaccine?

Answer: No, it’s Democrat mind control.

Question: But Trump pushed through the creation of the vaccine?

Answer: Yes, but I still don’t trust those Democrats and Fauci. They want our children, you know!

Many of these Putin admirers tick many/all of the "conspiracy nutter" boxes. I remember having a "debate" on the war with one of those on Twitter. I checked  his profile and he ticked all these boxes:

• Believes all pro-Putin/Russia propaganda, even the craziest stuff the Russians themselves wouldn't even put out
• Anti-vax (not just Covid, just antivax in general)
• Covid denier
• Climate change denier
• Believes Trump won the 2020 election
• Believes the WEF wants to abolish all countries and form one single world government
• Believes "15 minute cities" are a conspiracy to lock people in their area forever

And a few more I can't immediately think of. About the only thing I didn't see him tweet about (by checking his account for only a few minutes!!) was "flat earth", but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a flat earther too. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Marten

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

11 minutes ago, Marten said:

Many of these Putin admires tick many/all of the "conspiracy nutter" boxes. I remember having a "debate" on the war with one of those on Twitter. I checked  his profile and he ticked all these boxes:

• Believes all pro-Putin/Russia propaganda, even the craziest stuff the Russians themselves wouldn't even put out
• Anti-vax (not just Covid, just antivax in general)
• Covid denier
• Climate change denier
• Believes the WEF wants to abolish all countries and form one single world government
• Believes "15 minute cities" are a conspiracy to lock people in their area forever

And a few more I can't immediately think of. About the only thing I didn't see him tweet about (by checking his account for only a few minutes!!) was "flat earth", but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a flat earther too. 

I was just wondering what Elixir is up to these days.

[dirty dingus]

1 hour ago, Marten said:

Many of these Putin admirers tick many/all of the "conspiracy nutter" boxes. I remember having a "debate" on the war with one of those on Twitter. I checked  his profile and he ticked all these boxes:

• Believes all pro-Putin/Russia propaganda, even the craziest stuff the Russians themselves wouldn't even put out
• Anti-vax (not just Covid, just antivax in general)
• Covid denier
• Climate change denier
• Believes Trump won the 2020 election
• Believes the WEF wants to abolish all countries and form one single world government
• Believes "15 minute cities" are a conspiracy to lock people in their area forever

And a few more I can't immediately think of. About the only thing I didn't see him tweet about (by checking his account for only a few minutes!!) was "flat earth", but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a flat earther too. 

They not usually have the wee bible-basher emoji in their profile?

[ClydeTon]

2 hours ago, Marten said:

Many of these Putin admirers tick many/all of the "conspiracy nutter" boxes. I remember having a "debate" on the war with one of those on Twitter. I checked  his profile and he ticked all these boxes:

• Believes all pro-Putin/Russia propaganda, even the craziest stuff the Russians themselves wouldn't even put out
• Anti-vax (not just Covid, just antivax in general)
• Covid denier
• Climate change denier
• Believes Trump won the 2020 election
• Believes the WEF wants to abolish all countries and form one single world government
• Believes "15 minute cities" are a conspiracy to lock people in their area forever

And a few more I can't immediately think of. About the only thing I didn't see him tweet about (by checking his account for only a few minutes!!) was "flat earth", but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a flat earther too. 

Their newest one:

A totally made-up headline from a widely discredited source, relating to a report that said that Religions and LGBT should be able to live side by side.

The Far-Right/Neo-Nazi/Idiotic ones naturally use this to push their 'Elite Jewish global pedophile ring who want total world control' conspiracy, and of course use it to try and recruit the ones who don't know what is true.

What a bunch of c**ts.

[Cosmic Joe]

1 hour ago, ClydeTon said:

Their newest one:

A totally made-up headline from a widely discredited source, relating to a report that said that Religions and LGBT should be able to live side by side.

The Far-Right/Neo-Nazi/Idiotic ones naturally use this to push their 'Elite Jewish global pedophile ring who want total world control' conspiracy, and of course use it to try and recruit the ones who don't know what is true.

What a bunch of c**ts.

I think I'm probably getting too old for this shite. 

I know Nazis, pedophiles and homophobes are bad, but are they ganging up on each other? 

[ClydeTon]

14 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said:

I think I'm probably getting too old for this shite. 

I know Nazis, pedophiles and homophobes are bad, but are they ganging up on each other? 

The Nazis are ganging up on 'pedophiles', which is their way of saying "Jewish, Gay, Trans and/or a Politician".

To answer your question more directly: nobody knows.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ClydeTon said:

Their newest one:

A totally made-up headline from a widely discredited source, relating to a report that said that Religions and LGBT should be able to live side by side.

The Far-Right/Neo-Nazi/Idiotic ones naturally use this to push their 'Elite Jewish global pedophile ring who want total world control' conspiracy, and of course use it to try and recruit the ones who don't know what is true.

What a bunch of c**ts.

The author of that post in your screenshot there, Sean Adl-Tabatabai, is one of the Los Angeles idiots I mentioned: https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/sean-adltabatabai-on-being-in-the-eye-of-the-fake-news-storm-a3468361.html

[Cheese]

Please don't do 'horseshoe theory'. It's stupid.

[Guest]

I think the comment above was suggesting horseshoe theory applies to proponents of the NATO expansion idea. That's a hard sell. George Kennan was the first to make the wider argument in 1997. Here's an excerpt:

Quote

The view, bluntly stated, is that expanding NATO would be the most fateful error of American policy in the entire post-cold-war era.

Such a decision may be expected to inflame the nationalistic, anti-Western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion; to have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy; to restore the atmosphere of the cold war to East-West relations, and to impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking. 

(https://archive.ph/UxLwG#selection-429.263-433.336)

Kennan was described as one of the six "Wise Men" of US foreign policy in the latter half of the 20th century and his opinion was published in the New York Times. This was as establishment as it got.

 

Since the advent of the argument it has been wheeled out each time Russian militarism conflicts with US interests. Here's Thomas Friedman in response to the 2008 war in Georgia:

Quote

...NATO expansion was foolish...we would be wise to reconsider where our NATO/Russia policy is taking us and whether we really want to spend the 21st century containing Russia the same way we spent much of the 20th containing the Soviet Union.

(https://archive.ph/KceNM)

Again, that was published in the New York Times and Friedman is a Pulitzer Prize-winning Mr Establishment. He used it again in the same publication in 2022 (https://archive.ph/Xmanw)

 

On Ukraine in 2016, Jeffery Tayler wrote in Foreign Policy magazine:

Quote

Obama Poked Putin. And Putin Poked Back.

Washington’s decision to beef up NATO in Eastern Europe will compel Moscow to reciprocate with an equally aggressive response.

(https://archive.ph/PcVvn#selection-835.0-844.0)

Tayler is the Russia correspondent for The Atlantic.

 

It's entirely fair to think the NATO expansion argument is weak. However, It's wrong to consider it Russian propaganda or solely the preserve of the far left and far right. It came from US centrists and remains an embedded idea among them.

Edited August 15, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[ICTChris]

There are loads of different pro-Russian types. Obviously everyone is an individual but the pro-Russian  position can be roughly divided into a few groups, among British or Western people. 

You have a few people on the left who are just brain donor idiots who think Russia = Communism = good. Barely worth even discussing people like that as it’s such a monumental misunderstanding of the concepts of Russia, Communism and good that the only way to hold such an opinion is to be certified in some way. 

Remaining on the Left you have a strange kind of Slavophilic tendency that lingers in certain places that can lead to people taking a pro-Russia stance. There was the trade union leader who spent time with a DNR militia and wrote glowingly about the manly Communist qualities of one of the leaders. In an amazing twist no-one saw coming, it turned out that militia leader believed Jews caused the break up of the USSR and the “division of the Slavic peoples”, was committing crimes and was eventually murdered by his own side as part of a dispute over plunder. Who would have thunk it? You previously saw this tendency in the Bosnian war when some on the left openly sympathised and sided with the Bosnian Serbs who were destroying the country.

Then you have the “muh imperialism” crowd, who never found a single event they couldn’t entirely blame on the West, NATO, the US. A myopic view of how the world works but very popular in the strange SWP, permanent student demo world.

then you have the faux/humanitarian “ I just want the war to stop, peace is always best” crew, who leave aside the fact that their position, if adopted, would directly reward aggression and would highly likely result in more and longer conflict, especially in Ukraine.

Crossover to the Right occurs throughout these groups but is probably biggest in the bow tie wearing “muh realism” crew. They have adopted Russian thinking entirely over many years and changing would be too painful (and expensive in terms of lost donors) so they run with it. And if you don’t believe them well that nice Mr Lavrov told them so. 

Moving Right, the main groups adopting pro-Russian positions have several characteristics. One of the most prominent types is the Rightoid who thinks Russian chads are going to liberate the West into a new era of manly Christian traditionalism. A few years ago this movement picked up with the release of a recruitment advert for the Russian airborne showing muscular young men doing young men things. This was contrasted with modern recruitment for the US army, which has tried to increase female and minority representation. “We are going to lose the next war” wailed the Red Pilled Alpha chads. I doubt the subsequent massive destruction of the Russian airborne has modified these views. You also get this same crew painting Russia as a based, traditional, Christian society in contrast to the decadent US. This is in stark contrast to the reality of both countries.

You also have the defeatist miserablism side of the Right as well, wailing that whatever we do Russia will win because reasons. 

Fonally you have the online schizo conspiracy groups, who have now adopted Zelensky as part of the WEF, Fauci plan to steal their precious bodily fluids or whatever the reasoning is today. The war is just another string to their bow - everything is fake, everyone is lying, the war is fake, Biden is money laundering etc. You see this in the UK with the likes of Neil Oliver.

Of course, these groups pick and borrow from each other - you might get nominal left-wingers parroting lines about the “highly trained Russian army” that rightoids usually come out with. Denial of Russian war crimes spreads across all groups, with bow tie wearing academics sharing the info space with deranged drug addicted online psychos when it comes to proving Bucha didn’t happen due to Facebook statuses and the like.

Overall I’d say that while these positions are small minorities across politics, it’s probably more common on the Right than the left. Both groups are very small though, one of the few bright spots in British politics is the unity around supporting Ukraine and lack of politicking about it.

[Newbornbairn]

Then there's the "Ukraine doesn't exist because Tsar Wibblovitch in 16-biscuit..." crew. 

[Bairnardo]

10 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

There are loads of different pro-Russian types. Obviously everyone is an individual but the pro-Russian  position can be roughly divided into a few groups, among British or Western people. 

You have a few people on the left who are just brain donor idiots who think Russia = Communism = good. Barely worth even discussing people like that as it’s such a monumental misunderstanding of the concepts of Russia, Communism and good that the only way to hold such an opinion is to be certified in some way. 

Remaining on the Left you have a strange kind of Slavophilic tendency that lingers in certain places that can lead to people taking a pro-Russia stance. There was the trade union leader who spent time with a DNR militia and wrote glowingly about the manly Communist qualities of one of the leaders. In an amazing twist no-one saw coming, it turned out that militia leader believed Jews caused the break up of the USSR and the “division of the Slavic peoples”, was committing crimes and was eventually murdered by his own side as part of a dispute over plunder. Who would have thunk it? You previously saw this tendency in the Bosnian war when some on the left openly sympathised and sided with the Bosnian Serbs who were destroying the country.

Then you have the “muh imperialism” crowd, who never found a single event they couldn’t entirely blame on the West, NATO, the US. A myopic view of how the world works but very popular in the strange SWP, permanent student demo world.

then you have the faux/humanitarian “ I just want the war to stop, peace is always best” crew, who leave aside the fact that their position, if adopted, would directly reward aggression and would highly likely result in more and longer conflict, especially in Ukraine.

Crossover to the Right occurs throughout these groups but is probably biggest in the bow tie wearing “muh realism” crew. They have adopted Russian thinking entirely over many years and changing would be too painful (and expensive in terms of lost donors) so they run with it. And if you don’t believe them well that nice Mr Lavrov told them so. 

Moving Right, the main groups adopting pro-Russian positions have several characteristics. One of the most prominent types is the Rightoid who thinks Russian chads are going to liberate the West into a new era of manly Christian traditionalism. A few years ago this movement picked up with the release of a recruitment advert for the Russian airborne showing muscular young men doing young men things. This was contrasted with modern recruitment for the US army, which has tried to increase female and minority representation. “We are going to lose the next war” wailed the Red Pilled Alpha chads. I doubt the subsequent massive destruction of the Russian airborne has modified these views. You also get this same crew painting Russia as a based, traditional, Christian society in contrast to the decadent US. This is in stark contrast to the reality of both countries.

You also have the defeatist miserablism side of the Right as well, wailing that whatever we do Russia will win because reasons. 

Fonally you have the online schizo conspiracy groups, who have now adopted Zelensky as part of the WEF, Fauci plan to steal their precious bodily fluids or whatever the reasoning is today. The war is just another string to their bow - everything is fake, everyone is lying, the war is fake, Biden is money laundering etc. You see this in the UK with the likes of Neil Oliver.

Of course, these groups pick and borrow from each other - you might get nominal left-wingers parroting lines about the “highly trained Russian army” that rightoids usually come out with. Denial of Russian war crimes spreads across all groups, with bow tie wearing academics sharing the info space with deranged drug addicted online psychos when it comes to proving Bucha didn’t happen due to Facebook statuses and the like.

Overall I’d say that while these positions are small minorities across politics, it’s probably more common on the Right than the left. Both groups are very small though, one of the few bright spots in British politics is the unity around supporting Ukraine and lack of politicking about it.

I think its possible that you spend too much time on the Internet of things 

[Guest]

Dragging this out a bit now but I want to give one last special mention. Jordan Peterson said Putin might've invaded Ukraine because he was worried the West was going to use Ukraine as a vector through which to spread wokeness into Russia. That one remains my favourite.

[ICTChris]

11 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Jordan Peterson 

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

deranged drug addicted online psychos

 

[welshbairn]

10 hours ago, Ziggy Sobotka said:

Please don't do 'horseshoe theory'. It's stupid.

[dirty dingus]

Doesn't the right wing Maga Qanon hate Ukraine because they are all in the Hunter Biden snorts coke of Zelenskys bare bum camp.