Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Jambomo]

7 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

This isn't what I was getting at. It was a general criticism of our terrible politicians and their lack of thinking skills. Something doesn't work = we need to do it more.

I think that’s a bit unfair though. The West have limited options tbh, they can’t break conventions by sending in armies or they end up fulfilling Putin’s security war stories.

Arming the Ukraine and applying sanctions are the strongest measures, but they take a bit of time before Russia start to feel the bite of sanctions at least. It’s only been a couple of days. I think the sanctions threat, coupled by the Ukrainian resistance is getting to Putin, hence his threats about using nukes today.

At every step Putin is the one starting and escalating things, always acting in bad faith. The West are probably acting much as expected tbh, he knew there would be assistance and sanctions. He lies about his real reasons for the war and when he meets resistance, raises the threats. We aren’t really poking the bear, we are trying to subdue it.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Jambomo

[O'Kelly Isley III]

4 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

Well they've all apparently agreed to talk at least. Maybe we should see what comes of that before ratcheting up the threat level.

A possible exit strategy might be Ukraine reluctantly permanently ceding the eastern territories in order to get Russia tae f**k back over the borders, with the Russians demanding a guarantee that Ukraine ceases any overtures on Nato membership.  Hardly ideal though considering the current atrocities and still dependent on the whims of a psychopath.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

1 minute ago, CaspianChris said:

Mon the Ukrainian farmers

 

St Johnstone having given up two cups need to have at least one trophy for the year.

[Florentine_Pogen]

Ex-BBC John Sweeney in Kiev says it's all quiet in the city.
All sorts of conflicting reports flying about though.
 

AlJazeera normally pretty good but if they are wrong on this cluster munition report, that can only be a good thing.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

1 minute ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

A possible exit strategy might be Ukraine reluctantly permanently ceding the eastern territories in order to get Russia tae f**k back over the borders, with the Russians demanding a guarantee that Ukraine ceases any overtures on Nato membership.  Hardly ideal though considering the current atrocities and still dependent on the whims of a psychopath.

Like Ireland.

 

An  East Ukraine and a Democratic Republic of Ukraine. 

[Del79]

3 minutes ago, CaspianChris said:

Mon the Ukrainian farmers

 

 

[mizfit]

St Johnstone having given up two cups need to have at least one trophy for the year.

Chairman needing security for when we’re relegated imho.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

No surprise that the regular defender of RT on this forum is here pushing a de-escalation position.
 

Everybody should be pushing a de-escalation position here.

[Zetterlund]

6 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

No surprise that the regular defender of RT on this forum is here pushing a de-escalation position.
 

Yes, de-escalation would be terrible. What a bizarre thing to say.

[MuckleMoo]

I think that’s a bit unfair though. The West have limited options tbh, they can’t break conventions by sending in armies or they end up fulfilling Putin’s security war stories.
Arming the Ukraine and applying sanctions are the strongest measures, but they take a bit of time before Russia start to feel the bite of sanctions at least. It’s only been a couple of days. I think the sanctions threat, coupled by the Ukrainian resistance is getting to Putin, hence his threats about using nukes today.
At every step Putin is the one starting and escalating things, always acting in bad faith. The West are probably acting much as expected tbh, he knew there would be assistance and sanctions. He lies about his real reasons for the war and when he meets resistance, raises the threats. We aren’t really poking the bear, we are trying to subdue it.

I've actually been surprised at how unified the EU and NATO have been in response to the invasion. The EU in particular have been very quick in there response which isn't something they're known for. The EU and NATO have also been pretty bullish with there rhetoric which, again, comes as a bit of a surprise

[ICTChris]

Russia absolutely don’t want to annex the occupied zones in Donetsk and Luhansk. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Yes, de-escalation would be terrible. What a bizarre thing to say.

So you recognise that you are a Putinist mouthpiece?

[Mr Waldo]

Unconfirmed video from Cheraksy.

 

Thermobaric?

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

2 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

So you recognise that you are a Putinist mouthpiece?
 

What's your preference over de-escalation? Protracted war that kills thousands of Ukrainians and ends in Russian victory? War between nuclear armed states? This feels like a very emotional response which is natural but running around calling guys on a football forum putinist mouthpieces is extremely weird behaviour

[steve55]

Ukraine forces are smearing pork lard for Chechen soldiers...

 

 

[TommyDickFingers]

13 minutes ago, Florentine_Pogen said:

AlJazeera normally pretty good but if they are wrong on this cluster munition report, that can only be a good thing.

Thread here keeping track of their use if cluster munitions are your thing.

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 hour ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said:

Living with the threat that complete and utter nuclear annihilation could happen any minute is character building.

Never done me any harm!

[DeeTillEhDeh]

What's your preference over de-escalation? Protracted war that kills thousands of Ukrainians and ends in Russian victory? War between nuclear armed states? This feels like a very emotional response which is natural but running around calling guys on a football forum putinist mouthpieces is extremely weird behaviour

You clearly haven't read his previous posts on that other forum.

De-escalation has to be by both sides not one side.

Be very clear - the aggressor here isn't the Ukrainians - why the f**k should they de-escalate when the Russians are still attempting to invade?

They need to continue fighting until it's clear to Putin that if he continues there will be a protracted guerrilla war - that it is in his interests to have a ceasefire.

[Jambomo]

18 minutes ago, Zetterlund said:

Yes, de-escalation would be terrible. What a bizarre thing to say.

I don’t think anyone wouldn’t want things to be deescalated.

The problem is what is the cost of that? What does it look like?

Everyone is to quick to go “oh give them the East territories and promise not to join NATO” yet the Eastern Ukrainians are out there putting their lives on the line because they don’t want that to happen. As for joining NATO, Russia is the biggest bully out there, the whole NATO excuse is nonsense given they are the bullies that everyone is scared of. If independent countries want to join, then it should be their choice, not directed by threats from Russia. No other country seems to be terrified of having NATO members next door, mainly because they are not invading b*****ds.

It’s easy for us to sit here saying they should do X and Y or give these things up but that just buys Putin some credibility, it does not deal with the problem of his being a dictatorial ideologue who will almost certainly do it again if he gains from this in any way.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Jambomo