Guest Jedi Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Thorongil said: Media are tip-toeing around this fact. Sure are...its the most inconvenient of truths unfortunately...a few tough days for the Moscow stock market, but ultimately their main export keeps rolling. However this pans out over the next few days/weeks with regard to a Russian 'victory' the 27 countries of the EU will still be buying that Russian oil and gas. As said, sanctions on banks, and a few oligarchs having the inconvenience of having to land their yachts elsewhere for a time, and no World Cup play-off, still doesn't get around the biggest economic problem of Europe's energy supplies. Europe will still be paying billions into the Russian economy for the oil and gas. Edited February 28, 2022 by Jedi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 Genuine question - are they buying Russian gas and oil for consumption in Europe in Euros or Rubles? Or maybe even dollars? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: The President of Georgia Voted out office a decade ago, left the country and was arrested when he returned after being kicked out of Ukraine. P.S. He was a fuckwit back then too. Edited February 28, 2022 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDickFingers Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, alta-pete said: Genuine question - are they buying Russian gas and oil for consumption in Europe in Euros or Rubles? Or maybe even dollars? Blue pounds 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldonis Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 You anytime coming back ?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 1 minute ago, TommyDickFingers said: Blue pounds Good luck with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 6 minutes ago, alta-pete said: Genuine question - are they buying Russian gas and oil for consumption in Europe in Euros or Rubles? Or maybe even dollars? Combination of Euros and Dollars...bad news as it means that Russia continues to hold a huge stock of foreign reserves, which means that their economy stays pretty resilient, and they are less vulnerable to stock market shocks. Ultimately because of the energy supplies Russia is one of the most difficult countries in the world to make sanctions stick. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) They have also recently struck a huge oil and gas deal with China worth billions. Would take the EU around 8 years at the earliest to move away from dependence on Russian supplies. Net effect...oligarchs cash keeps flowing making them less likely to try and topple the mad one. Edited February 28, 2022 by Jedi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Jedi said: Combination of Euros and Dollars...bad news as it means that Russia continues to hold a huge stock of foreign reserves, which means that their economy stays pretty resilient, and they are less vulnerable to stock market shocks. Ultimately because of the energy supplies Russia is one of the most difficult countries in the world to make sanctions stick. What would happen if the oli and gas stopped flowing from Russia into Europe either due to them trying to cripple us (unlikely as it's the sole source of revenue just now) or Europe applying sanctions that stopped the exemptions (unlikely as we need it) How long would our supply last assuming we would eventually run out or oil and gas before the price made it unaffordable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jedi said: They have also recently struck a huge oil and gas deal with China worth billions. Would take the EU around 8 years at the earliest to move away from dependence on Russian supplies. How long would it take Russia to switch their supply lines to China instead of Europe? And how much would China pay as sole (ish) customer? Edited February 28, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) Pipelines are already in place for them to supply China. On the question of how long the EU could hold out (Germany and Italy are particularly reliant) is a few months, but no more before prices would be unsustainable and/or supply of liquified gas from America and Qatar! started to slow. The mad one well and truly has Europe over an oil barrel. Its incredible to think that while freezing a few banks, and kicking them out of the WC makes the headlines, billions still flow to the Kremlin from European treasuries for energy in the next few months. Edited February 28, 2022 by Jedi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Detective Jimmy McNulty said: The President of Georgia He is not the President of Georgia. Last I heard he was on hunger strike in a Georgian prison, I assume they let him out? ETA, it seems he’s still in Prison. Nice of them to let him tweet, Georgian prisons must be lovely. Edited February 28, 2022 by ICTChris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jedi said: Pipelines are already in place for them to supply China. Really? Why on earth did they bother with Nord one and two? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 The Power of Siberia pipeline started shipping major supplies to China in 2019. Because Russia is such an oil rich country and rakes in billions from the likes of Germany, Italy, Austria in particular, made sense for them to have the Nord pipelines as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 IMO no. I hope I'm wrong but I fear its going to get a whole lot worse for places like Kyiv once they decide to unleash the whole gamut of their conventional forces. There was an interview on C4 earlier with a Russian International relations expert with close ties to Putins circle who touches on the nuclear rhetoric bit you mentioned, the tl;dr of which was he doesn't think he will use nukes because Nato and the US are not stupid enough to make him.Yeah this is right. What I think a lot of the west underestimates is the level of support Putin has in Russia. Especially in the military, which is rammed with Putin loyalists - mainly because all of the important generals have been personally appointed by him. The anti war protests in Russia have been given a lot of coverage, they were a tiny minority.What isn’t given as much coverage is the majority of Russians who support the war. Most of them support the war due to drinking the Russian state media kool-aid of the denazification of Ukraine and them being forced into war, but they support it nonetheless. The chances of mutiny or Russian citizens uprising to end the war are slim to none.The Nuke thing is just bombastic rhetoric. Any kind of nuclear deployment by Russia means Russia instantly loses this war, and Putin knows that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scosha Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 One thing that always amazes me is when the likes of BBC/Sky send their reporters right to the heart of the centre of the crisis. Is it really that important to have someone there reporting live rather than back in the UK? What if Kyiv suddenly comes under severe attack - have they got emergency exit plans? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Lex said: The Nuke thing is just bombastic rhetoric. Any kind of nuclear deployment by Russia means Russia instantly loses this war, and Putin knows that. They have a Nuke that's not a Nuke, remember. You wonder how NATO would respond to that being used in Kiev. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 28, 2022 Share Posted February 28, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Jedi said: The Power of Siberia pipeline started shipping major supplies to China in 2019. Because Russia is such an oil rich country and rakes in billions from the likes of Germany, Italy, Austria in particular, made sense for them to have the Nord pipelines as well. Nord Stream 1 shipped 59 billion cubic meters of gas to Europe in 2021, Power of Siberia 16.6 billion to China. They won't even get close to that kind of supply and revenue for years, maybe a decade, and that's without Nord 2 that's finished and all ready to deliver roubles to the poor old pensioners and oligarchs of Mother Russia. Meanwhile China won't be able to afford all that oil and gas if they're not flogging consumer goods to a prosperous Europe who aren't shivering beside their last burning scraps of furniture, so they'll drop the price they pay Russia. Basically everyone's a loser. Edited March 1, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyDickFingers Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: They have a Nuke that's not a Nuke, remember. A nuke that is not a nuke ? what witchcraft is this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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