Newbornbairn Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, Clown Job said: From what I’ve read they pretty much control the corrupt government Ours? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Clown Job said: From what I’ve read they pretty much control the corrupt government Is this the West with Ukraine you're meaning or Putin with Belarus ? Both are pretty much on the money... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 The Western leaders have been weak as piss on this Germany not wanting to get involved due to gas supply concerns Biden saying a minor incursion wouldn't be so bad Our defence secretary is a tory fanny but I agree with him here 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: "The Last Shag in Kiev.' Its got Hollywood bonkbuster written all over it. Ftfy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 It looks like there will be some sort of incident this week. Russia will say it's aggression by Ukrainan paramilitaries in the Donbass and respond, the USA and it's bitch the UK will say it's a false flag and apply sanctions. The goal of the USA is to cancel the Nordstream 2 pipeline from Russia to Germany and justify a large military build up in Eastern Europe. They hope this will weaken the Russian state by forcing them to overspend on defence which is what ruined the USSR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Binos said: The Western leaders have been weak as piss on this Germany not wanting to get involved due to gas supply concerns Biden saying a minor incursion wouldn't be so bad Our defence secretary is a tory fanny but I agree with him here Probably because they don't actually believe the situation is as serious as the US/UK media hysteria makes out (a view shared by Ukraine itself) . You could argue that the Europeans have been strong to resist joining the US in beating the drum for war. Putin would have to be insane or stupid to invade. But the US needs a pretext to implement the harshest sanctions possible on Russia for their own macroeconomic reasons, and this could be achieved by poking the hornets' nest in the east enough to force a response. It would be a shitshow with both sides accusing the other of provocations and false flags, but in the end you have to look at who benefits. There's also always the chance that nothing will happen and it will be called a victory for western diplomacy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zetterlund said: Probably because they don't actually believe the situation is as serious as the US/UK media hysteria makes out (a view shared by Ukraine itself) . You could argue that the Europeans have been strong to resist joining the US in beating the drum for war. Putin would have to be insane or stupid to invade. But the US needs a pretext to implement the harshest sanctions possible on Russia for their own macroeconomic reasons, and this could be achieved by poking the hornets' nest in the east enough to force a response. It would be a shitshow with both sides accusing the other of provocations and false flags, but in the end you have to look at who benefits. There's also always the chance that nothing will happen and it will be called a victory for western diplomacy. Oh FFS, this sort of moderate thought will never get us to the nuclear apocalypse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Russia and China have recently signed a deal for supplying gas - Putin's already found a new market to replace Europe and couldn't give a shit about shutting off gas to Germany et al. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 My majorly unqualified opinion is that Russia would have invaded by now if they really intended on doing so. It's just posturing and sabre-rattling IMO, to show that they could invade if they wanted to. Russia does things like flying military jets into other countries airspace all the time for a laugh to see if they notice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Russia and China have recently signed a deal for supplying gas - Putin's already found a new market to replace Europe and couldn't give a shit about shutting off gas to Germany et al. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Newbornbairn said: Russia and China have recently signed a deal for supplying gas - Putin's already found a new market to replace Europe and couldn't give a shit about shutting off gas to Germany et al. Aye but if Russia can't sell to Europe then Europe has to buy from the USA and it's client states. Kerching for Uncle Sam. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said: My majorly unqualified opinion is that Russia would have invaded by now if they really intended on doing so. It's just posturing and sabre-rattling IMO, to show that they could invade if they wanted to. Russia does things like flying military jets into other countries airspace all the time for a laugh to see if they notice. They annexed crimea a few years ago already 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Newbornbairn said: Russia and China have recently signed a deal for supplying gas - Putin's already found a new market to replace Europe and couldn't give a shit about shutting off gas to Germany et al. He wants the flexibility of trading directly with China in their own currencies to mitigate the power of US sanctions, but he won't want to be totally beholden to them. He'd be well pissed off if Nord Stream 2 doesn't open, but Germany won't let that happen anyway apart from temporarily if Putin does something really dumb. Gerhard Schroder's on the board of Gazprom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Binos said: They annexed Crimea a few years ago already Historically, Crimea had been part of Russia. Khrushchev gave the Crimea to the Ukraine when both Russia and Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union. When it looked like Ukraine might join the EU or NATO, Putin snatched it back Trying to annex parts of the Ukraine that were never part of Russia would be a different matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Detournement said: Aye but if Russia can't sell to Europe then Europe has to buy from the USA and it's client states. Kerching for Uncle Sam. The shale bubble has burst so it's more likely to be Qatar on LNG shipments at the moment. The real reason Vlad is in Syria and the west backed militant head choppers against Assad was Qatar to Europe gas pipeline related. Never happened so Europe and Russia still need each other. 1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said: Russia and China have recently signed a deal for supplying gas - Putin's already found a new market to replace Europe and couldn't give a shit about shutting off gas to Germany et al. Takes time to build pipelines so that won't happen overnight. Easy for the cable news media in the UK and US to cheerlead a war from a distance when they are not the ones who are going to freeze in the absence of Russian gas or have their economy collapse in the absence of the associated revenues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 6 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Historically, Crimea had been part of Russia. Khrushchev gave the Crimea to the Ukraine when both Russia and Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union. When it looked like Ukraine might join the EU or NATO, Putin snatched it back Trying to annex parts of the Ukraine that were never part of Russia would be a different matter. It was part of a sovereign state 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Historically, Crimea had been part of Russia. Khrushchev gave the Crimea to the Ukraine when both Russia and Ukraine were part of the Soviet Union. When it looked like Ukraine might join the EU or NATO, Putin snatched it back Trying to annex parts of the Ukraine that were never part of Russia would be a different matter. The majority of Ukraine's state territory (including Kiev) was 'part of Russia' before 1917. The Tsars ruled a unitary empire, not a confederation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 (edited) One of the more amusing bits of Ukraine discourse is that mad right wingers will froth about the USSR annexing East Slavic areas of Poland in 1939 but will also tell you that those exact same areas are part of an indissoluble Ukranian state. Edited February 13, 2022 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Detournement said: One of the more amusing bits of Ukraine discourse is that mad right wingers will froth about the USSR annexing East Slavic areas of Poland in 1939 but will also tell you that those exact same areas are part of an indissoluble Ukranian state. It's not 1939 Nor is it the time of the polish/lithuanian commonwealth It's now 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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