Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Billy Jean King]

1 hour ago, Leggy Blonde said:

 

Looks like a lion going by livery rather than a leopard. 

[highlandcowden]

10 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Looks like a lion going by livery rather than a leopard. 

Going by the kit it's a w**k,not a tank

[Blue Brazil Forever]

14 hours ago, Leggy Blonde said:

 

I was there at East End Park when Cowden annihilated the Pars and their tank 3 - 0. The Blue Brazil also took care of  the  Dunfermline Air Force and Jim Leishman.

[LongTimeLurker]

Now Putin clearly isn't going to do anything mental in response to supposed red lines hopefully Leopards and Abrams tanks were only the first step to giving the Ukrainians what they need to win:

 

 

[Sweet Pete]

With HIMARS, heavy weapons, artillery, small arms, IFVs and now MBTs all donated, and discussions happening about donating fighter jets (which seems to mean that they will indeed be sent at some point), can we now call this a proxy war?

Sending a few cases of old stored rifles is one thing, but sending entire armies of modern heavy duty military hardware and all the associated training, parts and ammunition is really just a war of West v Russia by another name.

[Sweet Pete]

There's been bickering and grumbling for some time now from Ukrainian troops that all isn't above board with the US 'charity' Ripleys Heroes which now seems to be coming to a head. Seems that American volunteer, James Vasquez, who has been becoming something of a celebrity off the back of his volunteering to fight, has been using his profile to drum up donations for an org run by an ex US military guy which purports to send equipment to Ukrainian units. The Ukrainian units are claiming that donations don't reach them, they masquerade as being helpful for financial gain, and the organisation isn't even set up as a legit charity.

[bennett]

31 minutes ago, Sweet Pete said:

With HIMARS, heavy weapons, artillery, small arms, IFVs and now MBTs all donated, and discussions happening about donating fighter jets (which seems to mean that they will indeed be sent at some point), can we now call this a proxy war?

Sending a few cases of old stored rifles is one thing, but sending entire armies of modern heavy duty military hardware and all the associated training, parts and ammunition is really just a war of West v Russia by another name.

 

NATO sending in an coalition air force would probably be easier and quicker option at this stage rather than trying to train Ukrainian pilots on F16s.

 

[LongTimeLurker]

17 hours ago, Sweet Pete said:

...The Ukrainian units are claiming that donations don't reach them, they masquerade as being helpful for financial gain, and the organisation isn't even set up as a legit charity...

That's probably what the infamous Canadian volunteer twitter handle was really all about as well. He just wasn't able to stay credible with it after the bike ride through mine fields into Kherson stuff. All kinds of chancers are always likely to be looking to take advantage. That's just how life works basically. The Ukrainians were expected to have lost by now or signed some sort of armistice giving Vlad the Crimean land bridge. If they are not going to roll over then it's best for the west to give them what they need to win and hope for the best where the future of the Russian Federation is concerned. Having this war drag on for years doesn't help anybody other than maybe Vlad and his inner circle.

Edited January 30, 2023 by LongTimeLurker

[Sweet Pete]

4 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

That's probably what the infamous Canadian volunteer twitter handle was really all about as well. He just wasn't able to stay credible with it after the bike ride through mine fields into Kherson stuff. All kinds of chancers are always likely to be looking to take advantage. That's just how life works basically. The Ukrainians were expected to have lost by now or signed some sort of armistive giving Vlad the Crimean land bridge. If they are not going to roll over then it's best for the west to give them what they need to win and hope for the best where the future of the Russian Federation is concerned. Having this war drag on for years doesn't help anybody other than maybe Vlad and his inner circle.

Yes there will always be those looking to exploit any situation. There's been a few accounts of naughty behaviour from the international legion and the Georgian legion. Saw an interview with a recently returned UK volunteer recently that said a lot of guys from those units are over there 'on the rob'. Saw another with a French Canadian volunteer who said that the military gear they're supplied with is stolen and sold off by the Ukrainian officers.

[welshbairn]

3 hours ago, bennett said:

 

NATO sending in an coalition air force would probably be easier and quicker option at this stage rather than trying to train Ukrainian pilots on F16s.

 

I bet if there's any intention of sending F16s, Ukrainian pilots and engineers will have been quietly training on them for months, same with battle tanks. Last thing that's needed is Russion pilots shooting down American flown planes from inside Russia and America responding.

[TxRover]

38 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I bet if there's any intention of sending F16s, Ukrainian pilots and engineers will have been quietly training on them for months, same with battle tanks. Last thing that's needed is Russion pilots shooting down American flown planes from inside Russia and America responding.

Fighters aren’t really what’s needed, as they can’t effectively work within the Russian AA umbrella. Interceptors to take out high-speed missiles, if they aren’t within Patriot range, would help. The F-16 could do it, but isn’t as suited to the task as perhaps the F-15…but the F-15 would be a serious threat to Russia compared to the F-16 due to its range, altitude, radar and missile capabilities relatively easily allowing targeting of flights in Russian airspace. The F-16 is the better choice to keep things more limited, as would the rumored AH-64’s.

[Newbornbairn]

Every ex-Soviet state has problems with corruption and it's taken some time to reduce it in places like Poland and other former Eastern bloc countries. That was part of the EU exploratory work over the last 10 years, ensuring Ukraine has a functioning state before allowing it membership. Those laughing and pointing saying "Haha - Ukraine is corrupt" are missing the point. It's the desire of Ukrainians to have a less corrupt state free of Soviet Russian mafia types bleeding them dry that's infuriated Putin. 

[Binos]

1 hour ago, Newbornbairn said:

Every ex-Soviet state has problems with corruption and it's taken some time to reduce it in places like Poland and other former Eastern bloc countries. That was part of the EU exploratory work over the last 10 years, ensuring Ukraine has a functioning state before allowing it membership. Those laughing and pointing saying "Haha - Ukraine is corrupt" are missing the point. It's the desire of Ukrainians to have a less corrupt state free of Soviet Russian mafia types bleeding them dry that's infuriated Putin. 

That exploratory work should never have been done 

No attempt to investigate whether should be suitable for eu membership should have taken place 

Just left as a buffer state

[Loonytoons]

5 minutes ago, Binos said:

(Ukraine should have been) Just left as a buffer state

Same argument could be used for Putin's special military offensive.

Now he's got less non-NATO buffer zones and an increase in Defence budgets throughout NATO members.

 

[welshbairn]

16 minutes ago, Binos said:

That exploratory work should never have been done 

No attempt to investigate whether should be suitable for eu membership should have taken place 

Just left as a buffer state

It was before Russia invaded. Ukraine would have needed unanimous votes from EU states, it would never have happened. Hungary for example would have blocked it, and they would have had zero chance anyway given that they didn't even have control over their own territory, a minimum requirement, without even considering endemic corruption. Putin was playing Farage's Turkey card. who have as much chance of joining the EU as Venezuela.

[TxRover]

Now up to 77 Leopard 2/Abrams M1A2/Challenger 2 pledged, plus the Poles are sending another 30 PT-91 (modernized T-72M with better systems and reactive armour) and 30 T-72M1M.

Ukraine pushing for ATACMS, and Putin’s strikes aren’t helping stop that.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Maybe this Putin bloke isn't as bad as everyone thinks he is.

[ICTChris]

Reports that Russian attempts to storm the town of Vuhledar, as well as attacks in Avdiivka, have failed.  Russian Naval Infrantry were used in these attacks, elite Russian troops.  Girkin reports that they suffered heavy losses, he also hints that the real purpose of these attacks is to draw Ukrainian reserves away from Bakhmut to help Wagner there.

[scottsdad]

 

[MazzyStar]

1 hour ago, scottsdad said:

 

Eddie Gallagher?