Lowland League General Discussion

[Deanburn Dave]

............unless it's another B team !!

[Sparticus]

This is all pretty sad now.

 

[newcastle broon]

48 minutes ago, Sparticus said:

This is all pretty sad now.

 

In what way?

 It's a LL discussion thread about all things LL.  

[Shannon]

SFA licensing is clearly being used now by SPFL to hinder as many Lowland League teams and Highland League teams from being promoted as possible so if a Linlithgow Rose, Broxburn, Tranent or even ex SPFL team like Berwick Rangers win the league in the next few seasons they may not be able to play in the play offs when their ground is no different and arguably better than Bonnyrigg Rose and I would say far better ground to watch a game at than likes of Edinburgh City or Cove Rangers. Licensing is now not being used as originally intended where it was to encourage clubs to spend larger percentage of income on their ground than they were in 90s and 00s where too many grounds were neglected while players paid hundreds of pounds a week but clearly as a way of stopping further promotion to SPFL and save the clubs at bottom of SPFL for as long as possible.

Edited August 6 by Shannon

[Stag Nation]

2 hours ago, Connor7 said:

If a B team wins the league this season, does the 2nd placed team take part in the play off?

AFAIK, B teams are barred from "winning" the league. The highest placed "proper" club are declared champions and go into the play-offs.

[craigkillie]

The reason to be alarmed about licensing will come if a club actually applies for the waiver on time (which Buckie didn't do), has a clear path towards bronze, and is still denied the chance to compete in the play-offs. That would be scandalous, but there is nothing yet to suggest it will happen.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, Shannon said:

SFA licensing is clearly being used now by SPFL to hinder as many Lowland League teams and Highland League teams from being promoted as possible so if a Linlithgow Rose, Broxburn, Tranent or even ex SPFL team like Berwick Rangers win the league in the next few seasons they may not be able to play in the play offs when their ground is no different and arguably better than Bonnyrigg Rose and I would say far better ground to watch a game at than likes of Edinburgh City or Cove Rangers. Licensing is now not being used as originally intended where it was to encourage clubs to spend larger percentage of income on their ground than they were in 90s and 00s where too many grounds were neglected while players paid hundreds of pounds a week but clearly as a way of stopping further promotion to SPFL and save the clubs at bottom of SPFL for as long as possible.

That's pretty much it, as I said it's a blunt instrument.

It was needed as a tool to drag clubs out of the 19th century as far as facilities are concerned  (for players and spectators) and in that regards it has been a success.   In other areas it's pretty much a blocker.

I asked an SPFL club doctor a couple of years back how often he has been really needed since he was in that position and he couldn't think of one.  I asked what he would do if his services were needed eg a bad head injury.   The answer was call an ambulance, and that as he was a GP and not a head injury specialist there wasn't a lot he could do over and above the trained first aiders already at the club. 

That's one requirement that needs launched, although is very useful as a blocker.

You can also add the increased lux capacity as another. Are brighter lights really needed in L2 as opposed to LL/HL? of course not, there is no difference. Better lux is useful for TV purposes but you're asking clubs to meet a requirement which may never be needed.  Just like doctors.

There is also the issue of safety officers and Bronze requiring (I think) qualified individuals, which takes a lot of time and also costs a lot of money.  Do you need that at a ground such as Ainslie Park, New Dundas Park, Meadowbank, Cove Rangers etc? probably not.  Is 600 fans at Linlithgow or Irvine Meadow less of a risk than 250 at Meadowbank?

The licence system needs a complete overhaul and it may come, the SFA cannot handle the amount of clubs who are already licenced and requiring annual audits, along with an ever increasing number of clubs starting the process.

[cowdenbeath]

15 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

That's pretty much it, as I said it's a blunt instrument.

It was needed as a tool to drag clubs out of the 19th century as far as facilities are concerned  (for players and spectators) and in that regards it has been a success.   In other areas it's pretty much a blocker.

I asked an SPFL club doctor a couple of years back how often he has been really needed since he was in that position and he couldn't think of one.  I asked what he would do if his services were needed eg a bad head injury.   The answer was call an ambulance, and that as he was a GP and not a head injury specialist there wasn't a lot he could do over and above the trained first aiders already at the club. 

That's one requirement that needs launched, although is very useful as a blocker.

You can also add the increased lux capacity as another. Are brighter lights really needed in L2 as opposed to LL/HL? of course not, there is no difference. Better lux is useful for TV purposes but you're asking clubs to meet a requirement which may never be needed.  Just like doctors.

There is also the issue of safety officers and Bronze requiring (I think) qualified individuals, which takes a lot of time and also costs a lot of money.  Do you need that at a ground such as Ainslie Park, New Dundas Park, Meadowbank, Cove Rangers etc? probably not.  Is 600 fans at Linlithgow or Irvine Meadow less of a risk than 250 at Meadowbank?

The licence system needs a complete overhaul and it may come, the SFA cannot handle the amount of clubs who are already licenced and requiring annual audits, along with an ever increasing number of clubs starting the process.

Don't know about other clubs but it was thankful we had one in attendance when then Airdrie manager Eddie Wolecki Black had a heart attack in the dressing room at half time during a game and helped save his life.

 

[Ivo den Bieman]

4 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

Don't know about other clubs but it was thankful we had one in attendance when then Airdrie manager Eddie Wolecki Black had a heart attack in the dressing room at half time during a game and helped save his life.

 

It was a massive stroke he had and he still carries the scars from that.

Eddie is now manager at Lossiemouth.

[Burnieman]

5 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:

Don't know about other clubs but it was thankful we had one in attendance when then Airdrie manager Eddie Wolecki Black had a heart attack in the dressing room at half time during a game and helped save his life.

Clearly there will always be the odd instance, however trained first aiders should be able to deal with emergency situations until an ambulance arrives.  The requirement of the EoS to have a defibrilator at every game (regardless of licence) is the type of requiremement that is probably more beneficial.   I can't recall if that is a licence requirement or not.

[Eadie is God]

Getting local councils to send someone out to give a capacity figure for grounds is another issue.

Councils simply don’t have the staff to do things like this for small football clubs.

Surely it would be enough to get a qualified surveyor to do this rather than demand it had to be the local council that does it?

[lithgierose]

4 hours ago, Eadie is God said:

Getting local councils to send someone out to give a capacity figure for grounds is another issue.

Councils simply don’t have the staff to do things like this for small football clubs.

Surely it would be enough to get a qualified surveyor to do this rather than demand it had to be the local council that does it?

Especially when one council will have differing views than others.

[Eadie is God]

21 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Especially when one council will have differing views than others.

Exactly!

Some councils are strict and others don’t seem to bother.There’s no uniformity.

[cowdenbeath]

6 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:

It was a massive stroke he had and he still carries the scars from that.

Eddie is now manager at Lossiemouth.

Thought it was a heart attack but still serious. His team went onto win as well, decent guy Eddie.

[GordonS]

8 hours ago, Burnieman said:

I asked an SPFL club doctor a couple of years back how often he has been really needed since he was in that position and he couldn't think of one.  I asked what he would do if his services were needed eg a bad head injury.   The answer was call an ambulance, and that as he was a GP and not a head injury specialist there wasn't a lot he could do over and above the trained first aiders already at the club. 

That's one requirement that needs launched, although is very useful as a blocker.

The way you can tell it's used as a blocker is that nay sort of doctor will do - a gynaecologist, a pathologist - but a paramedic wouldn't.

I know who I would rather have first on the scene if I had a heart attack or a broken leg.

1 hour ago, lithgierose said:

Especially when one council will have differing views than others.

Judging by Darvel, if Prestonfield were in East Ayrshire it would have a capacity of 10,000. 

[Ginaro]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

You can also add the increased lux capacity as another. Are brighter lights really needed in L2 as opposed to LL/HL? of course not, there is no difference. Better lux is useful for TV purposes but you're asking clubs to meet a requirement which may never be needed.

300 lux has been an SPFL requirement for many years, not really heard complaints about it before and it shouldn't be that difficult for a prospective SPFL club to achieve, plus it's not just TV cameras but club media and photographers as well. From memory of the planning applications most of the clubs who have installed lights in recent years have gone above the 200 lux minimum anyway.

[tamthebam]

4 hours ago, Eadie is God said:

Exactly!

Some councils are strict and others don’t seem to bother.There’s no uniformity.

IIRC Berwick had their capacity drastically slashed about 30 years ago by Northumberland Council when there were worse grounds in the Scottish League about at that time. 

[lowenan]

[GordonS]

Provided EK (or Berwick?) don't canter away with it, the league is already looking very, very tasty. 

[lowenan]

Would like to see some outright odds for the Lowland League now, promotion and relegation. Really exciting.