The Queen of the South thread

[Rjc-1988]

For me the Club are obliged to start the season with a squad of about 20/24 players. The problem is that they couldn't afford to pay this number of players the full going rate for a full time first team regular. They counterbalance this by making up the squad with some local youngsters who presumably still live with parents etc and who can survive via the Bank of Dad. The problem with this strategy is that if you sustain the number of long term injuries that we do season after season we are left with 11/14 players that the Manager is comfortable playing. In normal circumstances 4/5 of our regulars should have been dropped long before now but there is clearly no confidence in these young fringe players. Two guys that immediately spring to mind are Atkinson and Hooper. Atkinson is in danger of breaking records for most bench appearances and really he is a pretty decent keeper so he desperately needs to get a move elsewhere as keeping him this capacity is not fair to him. Hooper is in same boat - looks a steady enough defender and again he has to move on if he has not broken through. I maintain that if these young players are not regulars by the time they are 20 at latest they are not good enough.

[NM_1919]

Compared to the players playing for St. Mirren that have came through their youth system, ours are shite. You watch magennis, Mcallister, Mallan, Naismith etc I know two are now quite experienced but even when they were put in there at first, they all look confident and like they could do something. I don't get that with many of ours, touch is rotten, make wrong decisions, caught out of position...feel when they get there chance there's a nervousness which is understandable but they've all now had enough football to be used to it. All be it there's been some alright performances brotherston at hibs, Lyndon first 3/4 games but not enough for me to be first teamers at the moment.

[die hard doonhamer]

Once again I've gone back to the start of the 2010/11 season. Here is every game since then where a result changing goal has been scored on or after the 85th minute. We lose far more games this way than we win.

All stats taken from soccerbase.


Won with late goals – 6 games

18/09/2010 Partick (h) 2-1 87min
30/04/2011 Raith (a) 1-0 90min
07/01/2012 Partick (a) 1-0 89min
23/03/2013 Alloa (a) 2-1 85min
06/05/2014 Falkirk (h) 2-1 90min
10/10/2014 Raith (a) 4-3 90min

Scored late to draw – 11 games

12/02/2011 Partick (h) 3-3 87 & 90min
18/09/2012 Rangers (a) 2-2 90min
16/03/2013 Arbroath (a) 1-1 90min
27/04/2013 East Fife (h) 2-2 87&90min
17/08/2013 Livingston (a) 3-3 86min
12/10/2013 Cowdenbeath (h) 1-1 85min
03/05/2014 Cowdenbeath (a) 1-1 90min
10/03/2015 Rangers (a) 1-1 86min
01/08/2015 Annan (a) 3-3 90min
02/04/2016 Falkirk (h) 2-2 90min
16/04/2016 Alloa (a) 2-2 85min

Conceded late to draw – 7 games

22/02/2011 Stirling (h) 2-2 87min
01/03/2011 Cowdenbeath (a) 2-2 90min
06/08/2011 Livingston (a) 2-2 85min
11/02/2012 Ayr (a) 1-1 85min
18/02/2012 Dundee (h) 1-1 89min
29/01/2014 Morton (a) 1-1 86min
25/10/2014 Livingston (a) 2-2 88min

Lost with late goals – 19 games

11/12/2010 Dunfermline (a) 1-0 86min
12/03/2011 Dundee (a) 2-1 87min
20/08/2011 Ross County (a) 2-0 87 & 90min
27/08/2011 Partick (a) 2-1 85min
15/10/2011 Falkirk (a) 1-0 90min
14/02/2012 Aberdeen (h) 2-1 90min
28/09/2013 Dumbarton (h) 2-1 87min
05/10/2013 Falkirk (a) 2-1 85min
19/10/2013 Dundee (a) 2-1 89min
23/11/2013 Raith (a) 2-1 87min
22/02/2014 Falkirk (a) 1-0 90min
20/12/2014 Cowdenbeath (h) 90min
21/02/2015 Hearts (h) 2-1 85min
17/10/2015 Rangers (a) 2-1 90min
19/12/2015 Hibernian (a) 1-0 90min
23/07/2016 Partick (a) 2-1 90min
29/10/2016 Raith (a) 1-0 90min
29/11/2016 Albion Rovers (a) 2-1 90min
06/12/2016 St Mirren (h) 3-2 90min

[HoBNob]

The game on the 11th of December 2010 was fantastic. Last minute winner by Bayne? Assisted by the QoTS keeper dropping the ball.

[Senior_Coconut]

8 hours ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

He started well but his form dipped and he should have been taken out of the starting line-up for a game or two. Unfortunately we were so short of options that it didn`t happen so he kept on playing and IMHO his confidence has taken a real knock as a result. i`m convinced there is a good player in there.

^ this for half a dozen players

6 hours ago, Rjc-1988 said:

we are left with 11/14 players that the Manager is comfortable playing. In normal circumstances 4/5 of our regulars should have been dropped long before now but there is clearly no confidence in these young fringe players. 

 

7 hours ago, Mr X said:

I said exactly the same thing the other day. We have young players who are good enough but are having to play too much and young players who arent good enough, at this stage, in the squad who realistically shouldnt be.

^ & this & this 

 

For me we have an 11 who when fully fit are capable of challenging for the top four, as we were for the first quarter.

Obviously though that's unsustainable over the longer term especially when a few of them are closer to the end of their careers than the start. 

Skelton shouldn't escape scot free for his part in our demise, there were opportunities to rest some of the key players as well as testing out some of the youngsters in a winning team, he chose not to. 

 

3 hours ago, NM_1919 said:

Compared to the players playing for St. Mirren that have came through their youth system, ours are shite.

To be fair our pool is always going to be smaller and we were compensated for three of the best of that recent pool. I'm not clued up enough on St Mirren's business to know if they've sold on but it could be that the difference is they can afford to keep their's rather than our system being shit. 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Once again I've gone back to the start of the 2010/11 season. Here is every game since then where a result changing goal has been scored on or after the 85th minute. We lose far more games this way than we win.

All stats taken from soccerbase.


Won with late goals – 6 games

18/09/2010 Partick (h) 2-1 87min
30/04/2011 Raith (a) 1-0 90min
07/01/2012 Partick (a) 1-0 89min
23/03/2013 Alloa (a) 2-1 85min
06/05/2014 Falkirk (h) 2-1 90min
10/10/2014 Raith (a) 4-3 90min

Scored late to draw – 11 games

12/02/2011 Partick (h) 3-3 87 & 90min
18/09/2012 Rangers (a) 2-2 90min
16/03/2013 Arbroath (a) 1-1 90min
27/04/2013 East Fife (h) 2-2 87&90min
17/08/2013 Livingston (a) 3-3 86min
12/10/2013 Cowdenbeath (h) 1-1 85min
03/05/2014 Cowdenbeath (a) 1-1 90min
10/03/2015 Rangers (a) 1-1 86min
01/08/2015 Annan (a) 3-3 90min
02/04/2016 Falkirk (h) 2-2 90min
16/04/2016 Alloa (a) 2-2 85min

Conceded late to draw – 7 games

22/02/2011 Stirling (h) 2-2 87min
01/03/2011 Cowdenbeath (a) 2-2 90min
06/08/2011 Livingston (a) 2-2 85min
11/02/2012 Ayr (a) 1-1 85min
18/02/2012 Dundee (h) 1-1 89min
29/01/2014 Morton (a) 1-1 86min
25/10/2014 Livingston (a) 2-2 88min

Lost with late goals – 19 games

11/12/2010 Dunfermline (a) 1-0 86min
12/03/2011 Dundee (a) 2-1 87min
20/08/2011 Ross County (a) 2-0 87 & 90min
27/08/2011 Partick (a) 2-1 85min
15/10/2011 Falkirk (a) 1-0 90min
14/02/2012 Aberdeen (h) 2-1 90min
28/09/2013 Dumbarton (h) 2-1 87min
05/10/2013 Falkirk (a) 2-1 85min
19/10/2013 Dundee (a) 2-1 89min
23/11/2013 Raith (a) 2-1 87min
22/02/2014 Falkirk (a) 1-0 90min
20/12/2014 Cowdenbeath (h) 90min
21/02/2015 Hearts (h) 2-1 85min
17/10/2015 Rangers (a) 2-1 90min
19/12/2015 Hibernian (a) 1-0 90min
23/07/2016 Partick (a) 2-1 90min
29/10/2016 Raith (a) 1-0 90min
29/11/2016 Albion Rovers (a) 2-1 90min
06/12/2016 St Mirren (h) 3-2 90min



 

 

 

 

This is what I love about Pie and Bovril.

It's striking that we lose out more than we gain from late goals.

I must admit though that we've scored far more decisive late goals than I'd recalled.  I can't believe for instance that I'd overlooked our late offside goal at Ibrox to set up penalties.  Or our double against East Fife at the death against a top goalkeeper.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, die hard doonhamer said:

Conceded late to draw
29/01/2014 Morton (a) 1-1 86min

 

To be fair we'd played the previous 40 minutes with 9 men and our sub keeper on in that one!

Edited December 9, 2016 by Skyline Drifter

[Distant Doonhamer]

5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

To be fair we'd played the previous 40 minutes with 9 men and our sub keeper on in that one!

Very fair point SD. We will all remember Kenny Shiels telling us all that it`s difficult to play against 9 men 

[Skyline Drifter]

43 minutes ago, Senior_Coconut said:

To be fair our pool is always going to be smaller and we were compensated for three of the best of that recent pool. I'm not clued up enough on St Mirren's business to know if they've sold on but it could be that the difference is they can afford to keep their's rather than our system being shit. 

They got a pile of cash for John McGinn from Hibs which certainly helped but it's not a fair comparison anyway. Clearly we're neither competing on the same Development budget as St Mirren, nor working with the same pool of talent.

St Mirren are still a Premiership club as far as Development League goes and play in the full Development League along with all the Premiership sides. They run with a much bigger setup and are based in the biggest population centre in the country (albeit therefore also competing with more teams for "local" talent than we are. Our Development system does a pretty good job all things considered but it's not remotely comparable. We're better compared to the likes of Raith and Morton than Falkirk and St Mirren who are very much Premiership in terms of their youth and Development setups. I think we compare pretty favourably over the piece with our relative rivals, notwithstanding the imminent sale of Quitongo from Morton (and even he was with Aberdeen before he joined Morton).

I do agree with the general view here though. We have some decent youngsters at the club like Brotherston, Dykes, Moxon, Aidan Smith and they should be able to contribute to the first team from time to time at this stage. However, those of starting level haven't been able to be nursed in and out of the team as they maybe should have and those who are more decent cover are being forced to contribute more than maybe they should at the moment because the squad was maybe a little thin and has been decimated by injury now. We're down about 4 or 5 long terms injuries now and one or two others are carrying knocks and nursing their way through. We clearly need to boost the squad a bit.

[Distant Doonhamer]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

They got a pile of cash for John McGinn from Hibs which certainly helped but it's not a fair comparison anyway. Clearly we're neither competing on the same Development budget as St Mirren, nor working with the same pool of talent.

St Mirren are still a Premiership club as far as Development League goes and play in the full Development League along with all the Premiership sides. They run with a much bigger setup and are based in the biggest population centre in the country (albeit therefore also competing with more teams for "local" talent than we are. Our Development system does a pretty good job all things considered but it's not remotely comparable. We're better compared to the likes of Raith and Morton than Falkirk and St Mirren who are very much Premiership in terms of their youth and Development setups. I think we compare pretty favourably over the piece with our relative rivals, notwithstanding the imminent sale of Quitongo from Morton (and even he was with Aberdeen before he joined Morton).

I do agree with the general view here though. We have some decent youngsters at the club like Brotherston, Dykes, Moxon, Aidan Smith and they should be able to contribute to the first team from time to time at this stage. However, those of starting level haven't been able to be nursed in and out of the team as they maybe should have and those who are more decent cover are being forced to contribute more than maybe they should at the moment because the squad was maybe a little thin and has been decimated by injury now. We're down about 4 or 5 long terms injuries now and one or two others are carrying knocks and nursing their way through. We clearly need to boost the squad a bit.

This. Spot on.

[queenslad]

Listening to Off the Ball. Have any keepers for Queens kept 100 clean sheets

Alan Ball?

Alan Davidson?

Cannot think of any one else who would get close in recent years

 

 

[Broony88]

[Doonhamer doon south]

Listening to Off the Ball. Have any keepers for Queens kept 100 clean sheets
Alan Ball?
Alan Davidson?
Cannot think of any one else who would get close in recent years
 
 

I would be interested to know the stats on this if anyone is willing to do the work.

[BIGdavieT]

Is it time for Robinson to be dropped?

[SUPERSOUTH]

34 minutes ago, BIGdavieT said:

Is it time for Robinson to be dropped?

Yes to be honest the last few games he has been suspect! Think It's time to give Atkinson a game surely the goalkeeper Coach can see that.

[Broony88]

5 minutes ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

Yes to be honest the last few games he has been suspect! Think It's time to give Atkinson a game surely the goalkeeper Coach can see that.

Said this to another fan the other week. Seems to be anything on target is almost a certain goal recently.  I like Robbo but think a spell on the bench might not be the worst idea ever. 

[overthetop]

Robinson been poor for awhile but doubt he'll be dropped

[Skyline Drifter]

On Wednesday, December 07, 2016 at 21:16, Skyline Drifter said:

Thought we may as well update this. The one positive out of last night was Dobbie back on the goal trail again. He's now up to 69 goals and 17th in the all time list, moving ahead of Lex Law last night. John O'Neill and Jackie Law in immediate sight. Lyle has added only one goal since that post in September (Saturday's late consolation), partly as a result of missing five games through injury.

20 - Willie Dougan (65)
19 - Jimmy Rutherford (66)
18 - Lex Law (68)
17 - Stephen Dobbie (69)
16 - John O'Neill (70)
15 - Jackie Law (71)
14 - Billy Houliston (74)
13 - Rowan Alexander (78)
12 - Iain McChesney (79)
11 - Jackie Oakes (81)
10 - Jimmy Robertson (89)
9 - Ian Reid (89)
8 - Tommy McCall (93)
7 - Stevie Mallan (94)
6 - Tommy Bryce (95)
5 - Jocky Dempster (98)
4 - Derek Lyle (104)
3 - Andy Thomson (114)
2 - Bobby Black (120)
1 - Jim Patterson (251)

Dobs now moves level with his former teammate John O'Neill on 70 goals. Lyle moves another goal nearer to Andy Thomson.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

The current goalkeeper/coaching set-up this season certainly doesn't seem as organised or professional on match days since Kenny Arthur moved on. At the pre-match warm up we had Robinson, Atkinson and 3rd choice Leighfield all involved which is fine but come half-time Atkinson is playing kickabout and passing with the other subs and Sports Scientist. Wouldn't it be better for our reserve keeper to do a proper goalkeeper warm-up at halftime helped by Leighfield, or when Leighfield is not there, one of the other subs could help out with a workout that benefits both keeper and other player. Maybe this is a small point but I doubt if any other team in the division doesn't have a specific routine for sub goalies at halftime, and at the very least it looks more professional.

[ThomCat]

Has anyone bought this season's shirt? Looks the best in a long while.

My favourite since the FIAT one back in 1994-1995.