The Queen of the South thread

[Brother Grimm]

Let's not beat around the bush, Leighfield is pretty rubbish anyway - the boy can't be any worse.

[qos1990]

Id prefer to play Cowie. Too often managers look to "protect" players because of their age. If hes good enough he should play now. If he gets dropped to the bench or out the squad he might keep this position as the easy option. It is so difficult for a keeper to breakthrough that my opinion is holding him back wont do him any good.  Donnaruma was playing at his age and Hearts were forced to blood there kids in many years ago but through that and various disappointments quite a few of them forged decent careers. 

Let’s play him, he has a shocker and confidence wrecked. Let’s not be daft the boy done well, but he’s got a long way to go, if Ferguson or leighfield is fit they have to start. There’s no doubting the boy done fine but let’s not get carried away

[Guest Flash]

The ideal situation would be if we could bring in a decent keeper and have Cowie on the bench. I don’t think Ferguson or Leighfield are the answer and it would be better if they moved on. The thing I don’t understand is why the players seemingly upped their game to try to make sure Cowie didn’t have that much to do. It isn’t as if the other two have been playing out of their skins and keeping the scores down.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

11 minutes ago, Flash said:

The thing I don’t understand is why the players seemingly upped their game to try to make sure Cowie didn’t have that much to do. It isn’t as if the other two have been playing out of their skins and keeping the scores down.

Like most people I took the impression the CBs were trying to protect him, but it's possible they just had a decent game, and we're all just projecting onto that our fears about having a schoolkid in goal.

Alternatively, it's easy in a struggling team at any level to blame the people around you for not doing their job, even where you're struggling yourself. You don't have sympathy for them and feel like it's not your job to protect them - they should be good enough to not need protecting. Then I can imagine a wee kid comes in, suddenly all that hostility is gone, and you can probably relate to being young and making your first start, so as well as losing the hostility you actually get a bit of sympathy.

Ideally they would all have so much professionalism this couldn't happen, but let's not kid on like we're in the market for perfect players. I've no doubt at least some of them struggle to get their minds right. But if the above is true, hopefully after tapping into that mindset for Cowie, they can hold onto it for future games. Won't blame them if they don't, though - the psychological stuff is often hardest.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Margaret Thatcher

[Guest Flash]

4 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

Like most people I took the impression the CBs were trying to protect him, but it's possible they just had a decent game, and we're all just projecting onto that our fears about having a schoolkid in goal.

Alternatively, it's easy in a struggling team at any level to blame the people around you for not doing their job, even where you're struggling yourself. You don't have sympathy for them and feel like it's not your job to protect them - they should be good enough to not need protecting. Then I can imagine a wee kid comes in, suddenly all that hostility is gone, and you can probably relate to being young and making your first start, so as well as losing the hostility you actually get a bit of sympathy.

Ideally they would all have so much professionalism this couldn't happen, but let's not kid on like we're in the market for perfect players. I've no doubt at least some of them struggle to get their minds right. But if the above is true, hopefully after tapping into that mindset for Cowie, they can hold onto it for future games. Won't blame them if they don't, though - the psychological stuff is often hardest.

Yeah, that’s all very nice. All anybody is asking is for players to do their job. They don’t need to worry about whether they are protecting anybody else or not. Preventing the opposition from scoring is a defender’s job. If he thinks a midfielder or goalkeeper or whoever isn’t doing their job, too bad. That is for the manager to deal with. They should just get on with it. They don’t need to be perfect. They just need to put the effort in. And if they revert to type and the application level drops, I will blame them. Putting in effort when it suits you is not acceptable.

[19QOS19]

I was trying not to be negative after Tuesday but I think some people are getting a bit carried away. Personally I don't think the players miraculously put in a competent performance because they had a young keeper behind them, if that were the case the players should be getting slaughtered and we should be asking ourselves why they haven't been doing that all season. I think the biggest reason for Tuesday is Raith having a shocker. Their tactics were hoofing the ball up to Duku all night and for all Obileye appears to be a big donkey, he'll win most of his headers which is exactly what he did.

Cowie did well with a great save being the only time he was called on. But to keep him in goal would be stupid IMO. We'll be on the end of more hidings this season and that will do more damage than good for him. I expect next season we'll be going with a younger squad so he may have to bide his time and he may well feature more. At 16, I'm fairly sure he'll be expecting not to be playing in the next game and it won't damage his confidence.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

Yeah, that’s all very nice. All anybody is asking is for players to do their job. They don’t need to worry about whether they are protecting anybody else or not. Preventing the opposition from scoring is a defender’s job. If he thinks a midfielder or goalkeeper or whoever isn’t doing their job, too bad. That is for the manager to deal with. They should just get on with it. They don’t need to be perfect. They just need to put the effort in. And if they revert to type and the application level drops, I will blame them. Putting in effort when it suits you is not acceptable.

Well I think the point is that protecting a goalkeeper means doing a bit more than your normal defensive duties. For example, whereas you might normally think a ball should run through to the keeper's gloves, if you're protecting them you're more likely to put it out for an opposition throw in. I think that's what everyone saw on Tuesday night. It can also be the case that having to protect a player will focus your mind at a level few players could sustain week in week out. It's likely therefore that the need to "protect" a player results in a higher performance level and inevitable that level won't be sustained. You said you didn't understand why they didn't perform that way week in, week out and I'm explaining that to you.

As it happens, I don't think it's unreasonable for Queen of the South players to generally play below a level they're capable of for psychological reasons. In any industry, it's usually people with a decent level of ability and a high level of psychological performance who rise to the top. Queens are the equivalent of a large local business in footballing terms. Apart from the odd star employee who's stayed local for non-work reasons (e.g. Dobbie), of course a lot of them are going to have extra gears that they find it hard to get into.

[Priti priti priti Patel]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

I was trying not to be negative after Tuesday but I think some people are getting a bit carried away. Personally I don't think the players miraculously put in a competent performance because they had a young keeper behind them, if that were the case the players should be getting slaughtered and we should be asking ourselves why they haven't been doing that all season. I think the biggest reason for Tuesday is Raith having a shocker. Their tactics were hoofing the ball up to Duku all night and for all Obileye appears to be a big donkey, he'll win most of his headers which is exactly what he did.

Cowie did well with a great save being the only time he was called on. But to keep him in goal would be stupid IMO. We'll be on the end of more hidings this season and that will do more damage than good for him. I expect next season we'll be going with a younger squad so he may have to bide his time and he may well feature more. At 16, I'm fairly sure he'll be expecting not to be playing in the next game and it won't damage his confidence.

But as it happens, I agree with this. It definitely appeared they were trying to protect Cowie at times, but a lot of what Ayo in particular did (heading away long balls, crosses etc) is part of his regular job. I just don't think Raith provided a wide enough variety of tests (pace, positioning, anticipation, tackling etc all didn't really feature in our defensive game) for us to say that the defence truly had a great game.

[Guest Flash]

12 minutes ago, Margaret Thatcher said:

Well I think the point is that protecting a goalkeeper means doing a bit more than your normal defensive duties. For example, whereas you might normally think a ball should run through to the keeper's gloves, if you're protecting them you're more likely to put it out for an opposition throw in. I think that's what everyone saw on Tuesday night. It can also be the case that having to protect a player will focus your mind at a level few players could sustain week in week out. It's likely therefore that the need to "protect" a player results in a higher performance level and inevitable that level won't be sustained. You said you didn't understand why they didn't perform that way week in, week out and I'm explaining that to you.

As it happens, I don't think it's unreasonable for Queen of the South players to generally play below a level they're capable of for psychological reasons. In any industry, it's usually people with a decent level of ability and a high level of psychological performance who rise to the top. Queens are the equivalent of a large local business in footballing terms. Apart from the odd star employee who's stayed local for non-work reasons (e.g. Dobbie), of course a lot of them are going to have extra gears that they find it hard to get into.

Thanks for explaining.
Think it is a load of codswallop. 

[IrishBhoy]

Someone in the thread comparing Remembrance Day to players taking a knee for racial equality is something that hasn’t received enough attention. Gordon Strachan levels of idiocy. 

[football maniac]

Fans and managers alike tend to take the glass half empty approach. The glass half full side I argue is if Charlie Cowie keeps his place in the team, he impresses and we go on a run of wins/clean sheets then suddenly we might have a valuable asset on our hands. People are just assuming he will not cope because of his age but have no idea of his ability/mentality. Granted I have no idea either but Im just arguing on if he happened to be as good as the other keepers

[Otis Blue]

6 hours ago, football maniac said:

Fans and managers alike tend to take the glass half empty approach. The glass half full side I argue is if Charlie Cowie keeps his place in the team, he impresses and we go on a run of wins/clean sheets then suddenly we might have a valuable asset on our hands. People are just assuming he will not cope because of his age but have no idea of his ability/mentality. Granted I have no idea either but Im just arguing on if he happened to be as good as the other keepers

Thing is its down to the managers ........ and managers' jobs are on the line if they get these decisions wrong (well maybe not this season for AJ .....) so the managers are nearly always going to take the most conservative least risk option in such cases and the youngster gets only occasional chances to shine.

[oldhat]

I've only seen the highlights, not the stream, but I'd suggest that it would be instructive to see how vocal the lad was during the game.  You'd think a 16 yr old, thrown in unexpectedly to the 1st team would be quiet as a mouse but if he wasn't it would suggest a certain confidence.

[19QOS19]

Fans and managers alike tend to take the glass half empty approach. The glass half full side I argue is if Charlie Cowie keeps his place in the team, he impresses and we go on a run of wins/clean sheets then suddenly we might have a valuable asset on our hands. People are just assuming he will not cope because of his age but have no idea of his ability/mentality. Granted I have no idea either but Im just arguing on if he happened to be as good as the other keepers

The biggest flaw in your argument is "and we go on a run of wins/clean sheets": that's not going to happen regardless of a shock result on Tuesday. Keeping him in goal will likely do more damage than good. There's absolutely no need to rush the boy's progress and no need for us to have 3 GK's on the books*. I doubt Leighfield or Ferguson will leave for free.

* I'm aware he'll already be "on the books" but I expect if he was to be promoted to the first team he'd have to be paid at least minimum wage, not the pittance he'll currently be on.

[TxRover]

Dropping by to ask what the hell got into Obileye Tuesday versus our first meeting. Which, if either, was more representative of his normal play?

[Distant Doonhamer]

25 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Dropping by to ask what the hell got into Obileye Tuesday versus our first meeting. Which, if either, was more representative of his normal play?

Have a look at our record this season and take a guess 

[TxRover]

Just now, Distant Doonhamer said:

Have a look at our record this season and take a guess 

Yea, about how that worked Tuesday...

I felt he was unfairly maligned in the first match, but he was clearly at fault on a couple of the goals. His performance on Tuesday was so much more composed, I was genuinely wondering if it’s a matter of game time and exposure or just that we utterly shit the bed.

[Distant Doonhamer]

3 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Yea, about how that worked Tuesday...

I felt he was unfairly maligned in the first match, but he was clearly at fault on a couple of the goals. His performance on Tuesday was so much more composed, I was genuinely wondering if it’s a matter of game time and exposure or just that we utterly shit the bed.

Fair enough. He's been a huge disappointment as part of an awful defence. Maybe he'll kick on from here, maybe he won't.  

Edit to add I think it's a given that Raith shat the bed on Tuesday.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer

[Monkey Tennis]

32 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Dropping by...

Christ Man.

Be careful.

[JTulip]

The Queens Trust have started a fundraiser to help us get to our long term target of 1000 shares in @OfficialQosFC We are currently at 924 shares. If you are able to donate anything at all it would be very much appreciated. Full details in link:
 

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/queenstrust?utm_term=G3VQ2MQpg