Who will be the next permanent manager of the Conservatives?

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Thank you.  And, in a UK context, "different political sensibilities in different places." doesn't start or stop between the Tweed and the Solway.  Those above that line are no different to those below that line.

By such logic, there would be no borders and differences in governance anywhere.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

There's a bit of that about, but i think that most of the people advocating independence on here have an understandable and reasonable belief that there's persistent differences in political attitudes across the border, which can be resolved by independence. 

There is, of course.  But it ignores the true truth that neither Scotland nor England are homogeneous socially or politically and that we've worked in partnership  since 1560.

But the entire Nationalist shtick is to 'other'.

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

By such logic, there would be no borders and differences in governance anywhere.

That is certainly my tendency - which is why I was so annoyed about Brexit.  I prefer bridges to walls.

So I said, "Talk me through the 'Aye we're absolutely the same as them' form of Nationalism".  Did you reply?

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

There is, of course.  But it ignores the true truth that neither Scotland nor England are homogeneous socially or politically and that we've worked in partnership  since 1560.

But the entire Nationalist shtick is to 'other'.

You'll not find anywhere that's home to millions of people, that's homogenous politically or socially.

You're not making the insightful observation you seem to think you are.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

That is certainly my tendency - which is why I was so annoyed about Brexit.  I prefer bridges to walls.

So I said, "Talk me through the 'Aye we're absolutely the same as them' form of Nationalism".  Did you reply?

Yes, I did.

you'll find it a few posts back.

 

That'll do me.  Goodnight all.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You'll not find anywhere that's home to millions of people, that's homogenous politically or socially.

Thanks.  I have been saying this for years on here.

[tamthebam]

1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

We're a unitary nation-state.  Were we not we'd not be having this tussle.

I dare say a unitary nation-state e.g. France wouldn't have three different criminal legal systems in one country 

I suppose in keeping Scots Law separate in 1707 the drafters of the Treaty of Union made sure there'd be jobs for themselves rather than having to re-learn English law.

[coprolite]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

There is, of course.  But it ignores the true truth that neither Scotland nor England are homogeneous socially or politically and that we've worked in partnership  since 1560.

But the entire Nationalist shtick is to 'other'.

You don't need homogeneous populations for that opinion to be true or at least valid.

A significantly different distribution of viwes within a population will do. 

I'm not a fan of nationalism as a philosophy and agree that othering can be a big part of it. 

Creating "in group" and "out group" mental models to classify people easily is apparently just a normal part of how the human mind works because people who think like that enhanced their survival prospects by forming tribes. 

Not sure that regular infantile mocking of your selected "out group" is doing much to resolve the problem. 

 

[The_Kincardine]

9 minutes ago, coprolite said:

You don't need homogeneous populations for that opinion to be true or at least valid.

A significantly different distribution of views within a population will do. 

Britain doesn't even have that.  Whether you're from Thurso or Truro the attitudes are pretty-much the same.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

The one downside to Johnson being punted was that he was a massive asset to the independence cause. Fortunately that dimwit Truss appears to be an even bigger asset. Sturgeon will be rubbing her hands with glee after that performance tonight.

[Antlion]

29 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

That is certainly my tendency - which is why I was so annoyed about Brexit.  I prefer bridges to walls.

 

So annoyed that you openly brag about how you kept voting for the engineers of Brexit and now wholeheartedly support a nationalistic state which wants even more walls?

[The_Kincardine]

18 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

I dare say a unitary nation-state e.g. France wouldn't have three different criminal legal systems in one country 

I suppose in keeping Scots Law separate in 1707 the drafters of the Treaty of Union made sure there'd be jobs for themselves rather than having to re-learn English law.

Lots of nations have a plurality of legal and education systems.  Several of them - The US, Canada and Germany - have done the decent thing and either banned secession or, at least, set a high bar.

Time for Britain to follow suit.  No one wants us partitioned by a thicket of small-minded Anglophobes.

[Antlion]

34 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 

But the entire Nationalist shtick is to 'other'.

Like the nationalistic UK did when it erected a border on the island of Ireland?

[Antlion]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

 

Time for Britain to follow suit.  No one wants us partitioned by a thicket of small-minded Anglophobes.

Why is partitioning ok when the UK does it? Or are you still after the forcible return of Ireland to UK rule?

[coprolite]

6 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Britain doesn't even have that.  Whether you're from Thurso or Truro the attitudes are pretty-much the same.

On most things in the Social attitudes survey (can't remember who publishes that, want to say the resolution foundation?) there's usually a 1%-5% difference and always the same way. Obviously Brexit was a lot more. 

That's enough of a difference to move enough swing seats in a fptp sytem. That's why Scotland's never had majority Tory seats in my lifetime but England has. 

I'd be interested to see the regional variation within nations and at fine city/ hinterland level but i don't think they interview enough people. 

[Antlion]

 

22 minutes ago, coprolite said:

 

Not sure that regular infantile mocking of your selected "out group" is doing much to resolve the problem. 

 

I think he’s less interested in “solving the problem” than in screaming into something other than the void. Bizarre behaviour from someone who pretends to be a fully mature adult with a vibrant social life.

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, coprolite said:

On most things in the Social attitudes survey (can't remember who publishes that, want to say the resolution foundation?) there's usually a 1%-5% difference and always the same way. Obviously Brexit was a lot more. 

Not really.  Brexit was a complete f**k-up and the sad thing was that most voters in Scotland either voted to leave or couldn't be arsed to go to the polling station.

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, The_Kincardine said:

Not really.  Brexit was a complete f**k-up

Then why did you vote for the party which delivered, espoused it, and championed it post 2016? Stockholm syndrome? Because the big boys on Twitter told you to (before they were banned)?

[coprolite]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Not really.  Brexit was a complete f**k-up and the sad thing was that most voters in Scotland either voted to leave or couldn't be arsed to go to the polling station.

Or the overwhelming majority of votes cast were for remain.  Unlike in England where a smallish majority voted leave. 

The point was that there was a massive difference in preference from England, not whether there was over 50% of the electorate voting in favour. 

 

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

Or the overwhelming majority of votes cast were for remain.  Unlike in England where a smallish majority voted leave. 

The point was that there was a massive difference in preference from England, not whether there was over 50% of the electorate voting in favour. 

Most Scots didn't vote to remain in 2016  - which saddens me.  I certainly did.

Worse than that - the language and attitude of Brexit-supporters is near-perfectly reflected  in their Scexit cousins.  Jimmy bunnets aside, you'd struggle to get the gable end of a Rizla between those who support Brexit and their Scotch pals.  Both are an absolute plague.