Monkey Tennis Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 4 hours ago, velo army said: I think you're both right to an extent. It is about meaning and perception, but the meaning comes from the larger story. The drama unfolding on the pitch is merely an episode of a greater narrative. That is what we participate in as football fans and what gives us the meaning and the emotional payoff. Winning back to back promotions in 2001 and 2002 is the best feeling I've ever had as a Jags fan. We were in the doldrums of the seaside leagues and were perilously close to liquidation, so to come back from that, with John Lambie and a few returning favourites (and some great characters) was a satisfying triumph. If we had won the First Division because of a group of faceless foreign investors, with no obvious connection with Partick Thistle then this story is less romantic and organic. I would probably do what Man City and Newcastle fans do (and also the OF up here) which is to construct a story that still makes it some sort of triumph to be celebrated. Perhaps a feeling that it is our turn (if Man City) after years of seeing your neighbours' successes, or a similar entitlement as a Newcastle fan (the story that we're a sleeping giant who have simply been unlucky or having to deal with corrupt owners). Up here the OF create stories around getting one over on their rivals, or the "authorities" or that there is an inherent uniqueness about their club to give meaning to their consecutive titles against vastly weaker opponents. Man City will win the CL, but it's the result of a Faustian pact which has denuded the club of its soul. The long time City fans will know this, but will have constructed a narrative to mitigate the cognitive dissonance caused by said pact. This will provide some solace and will even allow for joy. It will, however, forever be a joy confined. An excellent post overall. The bit in bold really nails it. The elite club game is now so vastly detached from the thing that we follow and invest in emotionally, that that greater narrative is fractured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 I pretty much agree with most of this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/09/modern-football-manchester-city-champions-league 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 18 hours ago, craigkillie said: Man City's "achievement" would be roughly on a par with those people that used the editor in Football Manager to give themselves unlimited money. Basically Celtic and Rangers in Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squonk Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I pretty much agree with most of this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/09/modern-football-manchester-city-champions-league That's a decent article. I'm not sure whether success from the Saudi money that's come into the game in the past 15 years is any less virtuous than the money, power, silverware and glory-hunting derived from an entire century of pseudo-religious and Irish political division that's advantaged two Scottish clubs. Edited June 10, 2023 by Squonk 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I pretty much agree with most of this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/09/modern-football-manchester-city-champions-league All of this seems common sense to me, unfortunately there is just no appetite to change course for elite sport in general. You see the Saudi money creeping into just about all of it and the recipients unable to say no. I do seriously think allowing the ‘elite’ to break off and do their own commercial venture without the baggage of Diddy clubs and then letting the rest of us getting on with just enjoying football wouldn’t be the worst thing at all. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 17 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: An excellent post overall. The bit in bold really nails it. The elite club game is now so vastly detached from the thing that we follow and invest in emotionally, that that greater narrative is fractured. The vast majority of us will never need to worry about our clubs becoming "elite". They're nearly an irrelevance (the elite clubs, I mean). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 10/06/2023 at 11:07, Jacksgranda said: The vast majority of us will never need to worry about our clubs becoming "elite". They're nearly an irrelevance (the elite clubs, I mean). Exactly. That's why we can only hope that the "elites" will follow their limitless greed and the lure of the no doubt tainted mega bucks sooner rather than later and head off to do their own thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 On 12/06/2023 at 10:11, Otis Blue said: Exactly. That's why we can only hope that the "elites" will follow their limitless greed and the lure of the no doubt tainted mega bucks sooner rather than later and head off to do their own thing. I get this to an extent, but they'll keep raiding the lower levels of the game to fill their squads and u23s teams. So it's not as if they'll be completely cut adrift/we'll be free of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeniedee Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 the "diddy" teams up here should grow a pair and the next time the glasgow ersecheecks drop their undies at the mere mention of a european league etc the rest of us should get in there 1st and tell them to f**k off. im still convinced our game up here will improve if/when those 2 f**k off....crowds would go up as more games meant something and there is the added bonus of more teams getting a crack at european football 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 10 hours ago, velo army said: I get this to an extent, but they'll keep raiding the lower levels of the game to fill their squads and u23s teams. So it's not as if they'll be completely cut adrift/we'll be free of them. Fair point. Geographically they'd always be monitoring the local player pool for talent and we couldn't deny our best players getting the chance to shine at the highest levels. That said, with their (assumed) mega-buck budgets from the golden UEFA leagues, I'd imagine that the OF would be fishing for players in a much wider and more up-market pool. What we wouldn't want is OF "B" and "C" teams packed with our young talent and stagnating when they could be playing for our senior clubs and gaining good 1st team experience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stiles Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Otis Blue said: Fair point. Geographically they'd always be monitoring the local player pool for talent and we couldn't deny our best players getting the chance to shine at the highest levels. That said, with their (assumed) mega-buck budgets from the golden UEFA leagues, I'd imagine that the OF would be fishing for players in a much wider and more up-market pool. What we wouldn't want is OF "B" and "C" teams packed with our young talent and stagnating when they could be playing for our senior clubs and gaining good 1st team experience. When the Old Firm do join a new cross-border league their B teams will become senior teams in the SPFL. Sadly the dream of a bigot brothers free Scottish football will never happen. It'll actually just get worse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squonk Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 26 minutes ago, Charles Stiles said: When the Old Firm do join a new cross-border league their B teams will become senior teams in the SPFL. Sadly the dream of a bigot brothers free Scottish football will never happen. It'll actually just get worse. I suspect that if 'the powers that be' tried to shoehorn the Old Firm into the SPFL in that manner, they'd encounter the wrath of the ordinary football fan last witnessed when the suits tried to gerrymander Charles Green's new club into the top flight in 2012. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparticus Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 14/06/2023 at 09:12, Charles Stiles said: When the Old Firm do join a new cross-border league their B teams will become senior teams in the SPFL. Sadly the dream of a bigot brothers free Scottish football will never happen. It'll actually just get worse. Their only arguement here is it helps the international teams. Well b teams havent helped Norway and Spain against us so far. It wont be long before countries start expelling b teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywastecoat Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 54 minutes ago, Sparticus said: Their only arguement here is it helps the international teams. Well b teams havent helped Norway and Spain against us so far. It wont be long before countries start expelling b teams. Who cares were the players haved played to get into the national team? The important part is there development. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 1 hour ago, willywastecoat said: Who cares were the players haved played to get into the national team? The important part is there development. Just 3 posts, did you get banned Willy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywastecoat Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, bennett said: Just 3 posts, did you get banned Willy? No,I could say i'm new on here zippy but had problems signing into my orginial account so made a new one M8. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywastecoat Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 On 10/06/2023 at 06:37, Monkey Tennis said: I pretty much agree with most of this: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/09/modern-football-manchester-city-champions-league On 10/06/2023 at 09:58, Dons_1988 said: All of this seems common sense to me, unfortunately there is just no appetite to change course for elite sport in general. You see the Saudi money creeping into just about all of it and the recipients unable to say no. I do seriously think allowing the ‘elite’ to break off and do their own commercial venture without the baggage of Diddy clubs and then letting the rest of us getting on with just enjoying football wouldn’t be the worst thing at all. Normally I wouldn't click on links but wanted to see if there was anything different from the usual diddy mindset,the red flag of him driving from Nottingham to Birmingham has gammon all over it (glory hunter tag). I've made this point before there is very little difference between the galacticos of the 50's and 60's to the modern galacticos in Manchester the fact it took Pep 7 years with all that dosh answers all the questions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 32 minutes ago, willywastecoat said: No,I could say i'm new on here zippy but had problems signing into my orginial account so made a new one M8. Which is 6 years old... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) In the 2022/23 season 4 Scottish players, 21 or under, managed 10 starts in the Scottish Premier League. In the 2022/23 season 12 English players, 21 or under, managed 10 starts in the Scottish Premier League. In the 2022/23 season 5 players of other nationalities, 21 or under, managed 10 starts in the Scottish Premier League. Overall 156 Scottish players made an appearance for a Scottish Premiership Club (all competitions) in season 2022/23. Overall 231 foreign players made an appearance for a Scottish Premiership Club in season 2022/23. Rather amazingly, if only Scottish goal scorers were counted, Rangers would have finished bottom of the league with 0 wins. Edited June 18, 2023 by Ya Bezzer! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 10 hours ago, Sparticus said: Their only arguement here is it helps the international teams. Well b teams havent helped Norway and Spain against us so far. It wont be long before countries start expelling b teams. Croatian B Teams have expelled themselves: there's no one left after Osijek II's relegation from Division Three. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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