Dundee United's Next Permanent Manager - 2nd Edition of 2022

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Do you really think they'll get an upgrade on Ross, at least on paper? I doubt the finances will be available and no matter what, the circumstances of Ross' departure will put off some of candidates.

As someone else said there'll be no shortage of candidates. Whether it misguided or not, football managers tend to have belief in themselves that they will succeed where others failed.

[VincentGuerin]

4 minutes ago, hk blues said:

Do you really think they'll get an upgrade on Ross, at least on paper? I doubt the finances will be available and no matter what, the circumstances of Ross' departure will put off some of candidates.

What constitutes an upgrade on Ross? All subjective and you can paint any coach's career as positive or negative as you like.

Even Ross. Depending on your agenda you could make a reasonable case for him being a pretty good or terribly bad coach.

The point is that there'll be absolutely no shortage of well-qualified people who really fancy this job. Who United choose is obviously a different matter.

Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, United will never struggle to attract good applicants. Doesn't mean they'll always make good choices.

[coprolite]

13 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

People always say this kind of thing when a club is a shambles, but it's never true.

However much fun it is to see a shambles, United is a good club of decent standing and there'll be a queue of folk who'd bite your arm off for the job. And they'll all believe they can turn it round.

 

We'll see. 

I doubt they'll be tempting for managers with decent CVs or steady jobs.

Ordinarily you'd expect them to be able to poach championship managers, but with an empty kitty, dressing room unrest and three months to the next window i can't see the likes of Dodds being tempted. 

I don't doubt there will be a queue of folk, but they'll be the desperate ones with no reputation. 

 

[hk blues]

1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

As someone else said there'll be no shortage of candidates. Whether it misguided or not, football managers tend to have belief in themselves that they will succeed where others failed.

They'll get plenty of candidates, but of what calibre relative to Ross?  I can see it being an underwhelming option similar to what we experienced over the past couple of seasons (Ok - more) at Dundee.  

I hope so anyway. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Stephen Glass.

Edited August 30, 2022 by HarleyQuinn

[hk blues]

4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

What constitutes an upgrade on Ross? All subjective and you can paint any coach's career as positive or negative as you like.

Even Ross. Depending on your agenda you could make a reasonable case for him being a pretty good or terribly bad coach.

The point is that there'll be absolutely no shortage of well-qualified people who really fancy this job. Who United choose is obviously a different matter.

Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, United will never struggle to attract good applicants. Doesn't mean they'll always make good choices.

I'm not sure the appointments some/all of the above you mention have made in the past bear out your theory.  I guess it depends on your definition of a "good candidate."

For the avoidance of doubt - I am not saying the Utd gig is unattractive but I am saying the Ross situation will make it less so than it was for him 10 weeks ago. 

[VincentGuerin]

7 minutes ago, coprolite said:

We'll see. 

I doubt they'll be tempting for managers with decent CVs or steady jobs.

Ordinarily you'd expect them to be able to poach championship managers, but with an empty kitty, dressing room unrest and three months to the next window i can't see the likes of Dodds being tempted. 

I don't doubt there will be a queue of folk, but they'll be the desperate ones with no reputation. 

 

I don't really see that as any different from any other time.

Even going well, United aren't going to get  a coach who's currently employed and doing well in an English Championship job. They're not going to take Hearts' or Aberdeen's manager.

Clubs like Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, United are always in a certain market. United could probably still take the coach off a number of other Premiership teams, and it's doubtful anybody in a job below the Premiership in Scotland would turn it down. And the usual profile of coach out of work down south having been emptied from a middling Championship or League One club will still consider it.

It'll be a decent wage, with a decent squad on paper, an owner who's shown he's willing to invest, and it's a club with good name recognition where success isn't that unlikely. Look at how Alexander turned Motherwell around. This league is shite and a lot of coaches will think they can take United back into Europe.

Edited August 30, 2022 by VincentGuerin

[Sergeant Wilson]

1 minute ago, hk blues said:

They'll get plenty of candidates, but of what calibre relative to Ross?  I can see it being an underwhelming option similar to what we experienced over the past couple of seasons (Ok - more) at Dundee.  

I hope so anyway. 

There'll probably be varied opinions on the calibre and reputation. Some people, until recently, thought Ross was some bright new thing. He might be again, maybe he was an imposter all along, I don't know.

If they offer the right salary they'll  get serious applications unfortunately that doesn't guarantee success.

[hk blues]

5 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

There'll probably be varied opinions on the calibre and reputation. Some people, until recently, thought Ross was some bright new thing. He might be again, maybe he was an imposter all along, I don't know.

If they offer the right salary they'll  get serious applications unfortunately that doesn't guarantee success.

And that last line is the crux of the matter - the quality of the appointment (not the candidate) will be directly related to the pot of money on offer, including salary  and potential transfer budget.  That can go either way, the owners may decide the cupboard is bare having spent it all on Ross or may go for bust and open the wallet again. Let's see.

Edit - I was a tad envious when they appointed Ross and wouldn't have been sad to have seen him over the road.  

Edited August 30, 2022 by hk blues

[NorthBank]

Alan Stubbs has been 'waiting for the right offer'. Maybe this is it.

[jamamafegan]

Could United afford Big Dunc?

[coprolite]

9 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I don't really see that as any different from any other time.

Even going well, United aren't going to get  a coach who's currently employed and doing well in an English Championship job. They're not going to take Hearts' or Aberdeen's manager.

Clubs like Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, United are always in a certain market. United could probably still take the coach off a number of other Premiership teams, and it's doubtful anybody in a job below the Premiership in Scotland would turn it down. And the usual profile of coach out of work down south having been emptied from a middling Championship or League One club will still consider it.

It'll be a decent wage, with a decent squad on paper, an owner who's shown he's willing to invest, and it's a club with good name recognition where success isn't that unlikely. Look at how Alexander turned Motherwell around. This league is shite and a lot of coaches will think they can take United back into Europe.

All speculation of course but i reckon if Stoke had binned O Neil at the end of last season he'd maybe have looked at a club in the ascendancy, with a budget and thought, "why not?". 

Now it would be more likely to be "who needs that shit? Another job will be available soon". 

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

All speculation of course but i reckon if Stoke had binned O Neil at the end of last season he'd maybe have looked at a club in the ascendancy, with a budget and thought, "why not?". 

Now it would be more likely to be "who needs that shit? Another job will be available soon". 

I just don't think that's how coaches look at it. Rightly or wrongly, they rarely seem to consider what's just gone before them.

Basically, it's 1) How much will I get paid? 2) What will my budget and squad be like? 3) Can this job help me get a better job?

I think for an awful lot of good coaches United will pass that test.

[locheedee]

Its McBookie so probably pish but here's the latest odds he's offering

 

[hk blues]

2 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I just don't think that's how coaches look at it. Rightly or wrongly, they rarely seem to consider what's just gone before them.

Basically, it's 1) How much will I get paid? 2) What will my budget and squad be like? 3) Can this job help me get a better job?

I think for an awful lot of good coaches United will pass that test.

You don't think what has literally just happened will affect 1) and 2) above?

Maybe Utd are wealthier than I thought.

[VincentGuerin]

Just now, hk blues said:

You don't think what has literally just happened will affect 1) and 2) above?

Maybe Utd are wealthier than I thought.

I think most people agree United's squad is way better than it's currently showing. Consensus was generally that they'd signed well. I think lots of coaches will think they could do better with what's there.

What the salary is like will be a hige defining factor. Depends how United view that.

Anyway, I'm not spending all day discussing United's HR process. I just disagree with the idea this isn't an attractive job. It obviously is.

[Lofarl]

Next logical step for Dundee Hibernian.

[mcginns]

Could United afford Big Dunc?

He'd certainly sort out the "bad apples".

[coprolite]

5 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

I just don't think that's how coaches look at it. Rightly or wrongly, they rarely seem to consider what's just gone before them.

Basically, it's 1) How much will I get paid? 2) What will my budget and squad be like? 3) Can this job help me get a better job?

I think for an awful lot of good coaches United will pass that test.

Most people like to consider things like working conditions, culture, and who they'll be working for and with before taking a job, particularly if it involves a move or a big commute. 

Obviously pay and progression are massive but not the whole story. 

Not sure why football managers would be any different?

Clearly you believe they're some sort of sub humans who have very simplistic goals, who are too stupid to take into account any context or qualitative factors. 

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

Clearly you believe they're some sort of sub humans who have very simplistic goals, who are too stupid to take into account any context or qualitative factors.