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Scotland v Ukraine (21st Sep)


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3 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

Click bait I know, but you regularly confuse "results" with "performances"....

I'm casting my mind back, and I can't recall many results or performances of any sort of standard since 2007.  Croatia home/away?  The Denmark and latter Ukraine performances are the best, all things said, in a good 20+ years.

It's also clear that the players at our disposal are improving, the team is improving, and generally speaking, results are too.

Anyone bemoaning recent times clearly has a short memory.

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The good performance against England was disregarded after the Croatia game and we saw a thread appear calling for Steve Clarke to be punted. @BingMcCrosby

People toss their toys out the pram if we don't get the result we want. Folk are so reactionary and you'd better believe if we don't get a win against Ireland on Saturday it won't matter a jot how good the performance is because people will forget what is being built faster than you can snap your fingers.

 

Edited by 2426255
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33 minutes ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said:

I'm casting my mind back, and I can't recall many results or performances of any sort of standard since 2007.  Croatia home/away?  The Denmark and latter Ukraine performances are the best, all things said, in a good 20+ years.

It's also clear that the players at our disposal are improving, the team is improving, and generally speaking, results are too.

Anyone bemoaning recent times clearly has a short memory.

if you don't recall the Nov 2020 Slovakia and Israel post qualifying Euro performance, the Czech and Croatia home games at the Euros, followed by Denmark away and Moldova at home, then you have an even shorter memory. The discussion was around whether Clarke was getting the best out of what is undoubtedly the best group of players we have had in years - and the frustration around how good performances and progress/results is invariably punctuated with very poor performances with no explanation. 

We have made gains and strides under Clarke but is he getting the best out of this group of players? You can support the team, be happy generally with the manager and where things currently are, but have some reservations about the manager's overall approach through his tenure. I consider it is a nuanced discussion which is unfortunately dragged down by some to posters either being described as a Clarke-hater (or self loathing Scot) or a Clarke-shagger type of argument. 

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23 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

if you don't recall the Nov 2020 Slovakia and Israel post qualifying Euro performance, the Czech and Croatia home games at the Euros, followed by Denmark away and Moldova at home, then you have an even shorter memory.

We lost all of those games. It's about results mate - That's your context, not performance. We were unlucky to lose to Slovakia. We were lucky to win in the Faroe Islands. You choose to focus on the negatives instead of accepting that the overall has been a positive.

You can't see past your own tears and snotters when we lose and that's the bottom line.

Edited by 2426255
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18 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

Not sure it was quite Denmark reserves, but certainly they had alot of players missing.

I agree with you tho, I wouldn't be looking at Denmark and thinking heres an easy 3 home points.

We had players missing for that game as well. I don’t think Craig said it would be easy tbf to him, said they’d be beatable at Hampden. Which they demonstrably are.

Edited by Londonwell
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26 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

if you don't recall the Nov 2020 Slovakia and Israel post qualifying Euro performance, the Czech and Croatia home games at the Euros, followed by Denmark away and Moldova at home, then you have an even shorter memory. The discussion was around whether Clarke was getting the best out of what is undoubtedly the best group of players we have had in years - and the frustration around how good performances and progress/results is invariably punctuated with very poor performances with no explanation. 

We have made gains and strides under Clarke but is he getting the best out of this group of players? You can support the team, be happy generally with the manager and where things currently are, but have some reservations about the manager's overall approach through his tenure. I consider it is a nuanced discussion which is unfortunately dragged down by some to posters either being described as a Clarke-hater (or self loathing Scot) or a Clarke-shagger type of argument. 

We played well Slovakia away and Czech home without getting the results.
 

We are never going to be a team that gives outstanding performances in every game. I feel you’re being unrealistic and unnecessarily negative.  

Edited by Londonwell
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Just now, DiegoDiego said:


 


I don't think anyone on here's thinking that.

His quote was there are hugely beatable teams Austria, Hungary and Denmark.

Personally I would put Denmark way above those other 2.

And not class them as hugely beatable, their very very good.

Austria or Hungary, yeah I would fancy us.

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37 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

if you don't recall the Nov 2020 Slovakia and Israel post qualifying Euro performance, the Czech and Croatia home games at the Euros, followed by Denmark away and Moldova at home, then you have an even shorter memory. The discussion was around whether Clarke was getting the best out of what is undoubtedly the best group of players we have had in years - and the frustration around how good performances and progress/results is invariably punctuated with very poor performances with no explanation. 

We have made gains and strides under Clarke but is he getting the best out of this group of players? You can support the team, be happy generally with the manager and where things currently are, but have some reservations about the manager's overall approach through his tenure. I consider it is a nuanced discussion which is unfortunately dragged down by some to posters either being described as a Clarke-hater (or self loathing Scot) or a Clarke-shagger type of argument. 

Those were disappointing results, but the performances were much better.  There have been some issues since SC took over, but it doubtless has been a steady improvement over the time.

I agree that it is nuanced, but whilst you're not a Clarke-hater, I'd suggest you're on the more pessimistic end of things.

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40 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said:

if you don't recall the Nov 2020 Slovakia and Israel post qualifying Euro performance, the Czech and Croatia home games at the Euros, followed by Denmark away and Moldova at home, then you have an even shorter memory. The discussion was around whether Clarke was getting the best out of what is undoubtedly the best group of players we have had in years - and the frustration around how good performances and progress/results is invariably punctuated with very poor performances with no explanation. 

We have made gains and strides under Clarke but is he getting the best out of this group of players? You can support the team, be happy generally with the manager and where things currently are, but have some reservations about the manager's overall approach through his tenure. I consider it is a nuanced discussion which is unfortunately dragged down by some to posters either being described as a Clarke-hater (or self loathing Scot) or a Clarke-shagger type of argument. 

I think it's telling that you haven't given an example of a game under Steve Clarke's reign that we lost but you thought we performed well.

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35 minutes ago, BingMcCrosby said:

I agree with you tho, I wouldn't be looking at Denmark and thinking heres an easy 3 home points.

Literally no-one has said Denmark are an easy 3 points.

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Just now, Londonwell said:

We played well Slovakia away and Czech home without getting the results.
 

We are never going to be a team that gives outstanding performances in every game. I feel you’re being unrealistic and unnecessarily negative.  

I dont see the point in getting into all this. Were all Scotland fans and some of us disagree with how we should play.

I think the last paragraph he makes alot of sense. If its getting to calling people negative and guessing at their motivations simply because they disagree its went to far.

Alot of people were looking for the manager to change formation and play more positively. Which we did and frankly it was great.

But I'm not on here looking to point score against the people who wanted to continue with the back 5. Because whats the point.

Tbh we played great and its the best I've seen us play under Clarke. I'm confident we can beat Ireland and be going to Ukraine full of confidence we can get something over there.

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Only if your English language comprehension is extremely poor.

I'm paraphrasing but the discussion was

Original poster: "Pot 1 team isn't that important."

Me: "There are some teams in Pot 1 that we can beat at Hampden"

Other posters: "How dare you suggest that we could consider trying to beat a team we beat 11 months ago", "Ridiculous to suggest we'll easily pump them at Hampden", "How can anyone have them down as a guaranteed 3 points"

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