welshbairn Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, ICTChris said: What happens if the SNP + Greens + Alba/SSP/etc get 50.1% in the next election? I think the idea from Regan is that the SNP then start negotiations for independence. But that isn't going to happen because the UK Government won't recognise it as a valid constitutional mechanism. So then what? What's the next step? A national huff is declared until Westminster caves in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: A national huff is declared until Westminster caves in. Probably the best option, stick to our strengths as a nation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ICTChris said: What happens if the SNP + Greens + Alba/SSP/etc get 50.1% in the next election? I think the idea from Regan is that the SNP then start negotiations for independence. But that isn't going to happen because the UK Government won't recognise it as a valid constitutional mechanism. So then what? What's the next step? Have a few meetings, yet another national conversation, maybe a conference. Ask for a referendum again. If that doesn’t work, just give up on it, and try and get that GRR Bill sorted. If it can’t be sorted there’ll be some other navel-gazing crusade to divert attention. Edited February 23, 2023 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Not sure myself, think we're unlikely to ever get the consistent 55-60% majority in the polls for indy that the gradualists want before pulling the trigger, the thing that made polling zoom from 28ish% to 45% in 2014 was actually announcing a real date when it could happen and proper campaigning could start. The next Westminster election is too soon though, especially with an unproven leader whoever that might be, maybe the next Holyrood one. Expecting a big jump in support after calling a referendum doesn’t seem realistic. Most people are entrenched in their “side” now and it would be the same debates as we’ve had for the last 10 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The only legal route to independence is hoping the Westminster government of the day agree to a referendum, and winning it. Any candidate telling you anything else is lying. Is Ash fucking Regan willing to go to jail ala the Catalonians by declaring independence on a combined 50.1% vote for the SNP, Greens and Alba? Of course she isn’t. Sturgeon knows this full well and it’s a disappointment to me she just won’t say it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, Paco said: The only legal route to independence is hoping the Westminster government of the day agree to a referendum, and winning it. Any candidate telling you anything else is lying. Is Ash fucking Regan willing to go to jail ala the Catalonians by declaring independence on a combined 50.1% vote for the SNP, Greens and Alba? Of course she isn’t. Sturgeon knows this full well and it’s a disappointment to me she just won’t say it. The irony is, if Sunak agreed to a referendum right now, and said it had to be held before the end of 2023, it might work in the yoons favour. With Sturgeon stepping down, the fragmentation amongst the nationalists is becoming clear, from the gradualists to the Jim Sillars types looking for UDI. The independence cause looks weaker today than it has at any time since 2011 because it seems that the united front for independence is fraying. He won't though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The one silver lining to this Forbes bigotry cloud has been a day or two without talking about fucking independence. Is it naive to think we could maybe have a day or two a month when the focus is on issues like education and health rather than debating different ways to fail to get a referendum? -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The problem with overly religious people is that they tend to fall back on their beliefs for guidance. She might say that she'll keep her faith out of politics, and it might actually be true at the time. At the end of the day it will interfere in her capability to make fair decisions. I see these people every day. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Are there any murmurings of a fourth candidate? I need hope... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Nice little vignette. Sturgeon's puppet, eh? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) Indy needs a leader or a very competent FM who does such a good day to day and improves peoples lives over the next 5 years (both ideally) I think, that not one of these 3 contenders is anywhere near either of those roles. Id be surprised if they can change that opinion now Edited February 23, 2023 by ScotiaNostra 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, ScotiaNostra said: Indy needs a leader or a very competent FM who does such a good day to day and improves peoples lives over the next 5 years (both ideally) I think, that not one of these 3 contenders is anywhere near either of those roles. Id be surprised if they can change that opinion now Right. Make the case for independence as a means to an end - a kinder, fairer society - and not an end in itself. If what follows independence is Kate Forbes, that case is pretty hard to make. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie_Murray7 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Have we established if Forbes actually follows every part of the bible? Or only select snippets? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 21 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said: Have we established if Forbes actually follows every part of the bible? Or only select snippets? I’ve never seen her cook a goat in the milk of its mother, to be fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 The de facto referendum idea is never going to work because the unionist parties won't be standing on a one line manifesto of opposing independence. Even if the SNP get their 50% + 1, the UK government will simply refuse to enter independence negotiations. By far the most likely route to a legally binding independence referendum being granted is that the next UK General Election (Or any subsequent UK GE) results in a hung parliament with Scotland continuing to return a large contingent of SNP MPs who could be relied upon to ensure that the Prime Minister enjoys majority support in the house of commons. If the SNP threaten to vote down the UK government unless a referendum is granted, then the section 30 power might be granted. The way the polls are looking just now though, Keir Starmer is going to waltz into number 10 with a stomping majority whether or not the Scottish constituencies stick with the SNP or turn back to Labour, and that will mean independence is dead in the water until 2029 at least. The Holyrood elections are not directly relevant to the independence cause, although the SNP should continue to prioritise winning them in order to try and prove to voters that they do a better job at governing Scotland than any WM government and to stand up for Scottish interests. They're not a route to independence though and the only reason they have been in the past is because David Cameron didn't resist the calls for a section 30 in the way that his four successors have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 41 minutes ago, Shuggie_Murray7 said: Have we established if Forbes actually follows every part of the bible? Or only select snippets? If she’s gone as far as declaring sex before marriage and having a child out of wedlock as being sinful I think it a reasonable conclusion to your concern that she follows ‘enough’, probably more than most and I’d wager more than ‘only selected snippets’. But I don’t see what you are you driving at? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Trogdor said: Are there any murmurings of a fourth candidate? I need hope... I think Obi-Wan is deid m8. Unless you want his force ghost to be FM, which would be quite something. Edited February 23, 2023 by Richey Edwards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Jar Jar Binks would have a decent chance against this lot tbf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Bodie said: Jar Jar Binks would have a decent chance against this lot tbf. "Welcome to STV News, Mr Binks. First off, let me ask: if a woman has a penis, is that woman a man or a woman?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 51 minutes ago, alta-pete said: If she’s gone as far as declaring sex before marriage and having a child out of wedlock as being sinful I think it a reasonable conclusion to your concern that she follows ‘enough’, probably more than most and I’d wager more than ‘only selected snippets’. But I don’t see what you are you driving at? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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