Miguel Sanchez Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 I'm absolutely amazed anybody still reads Granny Danger's posts. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, virginton said: Divergence is absolutely a limitation on the SG's ability to set policy. Whether people like it or not, in a unitary UK state it is all too easy for top-rate taxpayers to decamp across the border. While it's not going to happen overnight, a gap of £2k per year in tax due is going to change the behaviour of a substantial number of people - and Scotland has a relatively tiny number of top-rate earners to begin with. To have full scope to set tax powers, you need independence first. That should be the line taken by any new leader of the SNP. This 'we can make a much fairer society now' idea is running headlong into a trap set within the devolution settlement. Diverging as a sovereign state and establishing different rights and opportunities for its citizens are both crucial to justifying a radically divergent tax policy. ^^This.... but these "its left a left wing" party numpties just don't get it. Scotland is hamstrung under devolution.......and that cannot be neaningfully changed until independence. The SNP needs to appeal across the political spectrum with the unifying factor being independence as the first and foremost political priority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 32 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: ^^This.... but these "its left a left wing" party numpties just don't get it. Scotland is hamstrung under devolution.......and that cannot be neaningfully changed until independence. The SNP needs to appeal across the political spectrum with the unifying factor being independence as the first and foremost political priority. It is such a spectacularly bad take that I put it down to trolling again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Tibbs Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 It's utterly baffling to me that Kate Forbes and many SNP supporters regard divergence as a problem; yet harp on about Scotland not having full tax raising powers. What the hell do they think independence is if not divergence? The exact same problems would apply post independence. Doctors and engineers aren't going to pay significantly higher rates of tax in Scotland when they could pay less in England. . More fiscal levers/tax raising powers just means more stealth taxes on the least economically mobile. Independence is a race to the bottom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said: It's utterly baffling to me that Kate Forbes and many SNP supporters regard divergence as a problem; yet harp on about Scotland not having full tax raising powers. What the hell do they think independence is if not divergence? The exact same problems would apply post independence. Doctors and engineers aren't going to pay significantly higher rates of tax in Scotland when they could pay less in England. . More fiscal levers/tax raising powers just means more stealth taxes on the least economically mobile. Independence is a race to the bottom. Aye....cos that is what happens in Denmark, Ireland, Iceland, Norway and all the other normal countries. What a load of tosh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Tibbs Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Just now, git-intae-thum said: Aye....cos that is what happens in Denmark, Ireland, Iceland, Norway and all the other normal countries. What a load of tosh. We wouldn't be sharing a border with those countries, shit for brains. We would be sharing a border with England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Terry_Tibbs said: We wouldn't be sharing a border with those countries, shit for brains. We would be sharing a border with England. Barring Iceland, all the other countries I mentioned, share land borders with larger neighbours. What makes England so special? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said: We wouldn't be sharing a border with those countries, shit for brains. We would be sharing a border with England. I could pay less tax by moving 40 minutes from Illinois to Indiana but I don’t. Less tax tends to mean less public services and I quite like those. Shit for brains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Tibbs Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: Barring Iceland, all the other countries I mentioned, share land borders with larger neighbours. What makes England so special? Do you think the rest of the UK would adopt Scandinavian/progressive levels of taxation? The relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland is a far more realistic comparison than the Scandinavian countries. There are also far greater cultural differences between those nations and the nations of the UK. Economically they are similar but culturally they are not interchangeable. Those of us who have lived and worked in England aren't suddenly going to feel like foreigners when crossing the border. I hope that clarifies things but i suspect you're too hard of thinking for the point to sink home. Much love, Terry Edited March 19, 2023 by Terry_Tibbs -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Friendly reminder: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Tibbs Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, carpetmonster said: I could pay less tax by moving 40 minutes from Illinois to Indiana but I don’t. Less tax tends to mean less public services and I quite like those. Shit for brains. Gotta love these patriots who live thousands of miles away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 25 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said: We wouldn't be sharing a border with those countries, shit for brains. We would be sharing a border with England. The exodus of doctors from Inverness will only stop when Rotherham NHS Trust have no more vacancies to fill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said: Do you think the rest of the UK would adopt Scandinavian/progressive levels of taxation? The relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland is a far more realistic comparison than the Scandinavian countries. There are also far greater cultural differences between those nations and the nations of the UK. Economically they are similar but culturally they are not interchangeable. Those of us who have lived and worked in England aren't suddenly going to like foreigners when crossing the border. I hope that clarifies things but i suspect you're too hard of thinking for the point to sink home. Much love, Terry Made up nonsenese and hyperbole. Again there is no evidence that what you are suggesting happens in similar normal countries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpetmonster Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Terry_Tibbs said: Gotta love these patriots who live thousands of miles away. If you’re accusing me of being patriotic you couldn’t be further from the truth. What about my actual point tho? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Terry_Tibbs said: Do you think the rest of the UK would adopt Scandinavian/progressive levels of taxation? The relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland is a far more realistic comparison than the Scandinavian countries. There are also far greater cultural differences between those nations and the nations of the UK. Economically they are similar but culturally they are not interchangeable. Those of us who have lived and worked in England aren't suddenly going to like foreigners when crossing the border. I hope that clarifies things but i suspect you're too hard of thinking for the point to sink home. Much love, Terry Please clarify why working in England means you hate foreigners? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, sophia said: The exodus of doctors from Inverness will only stop when Rotherham NHS Trust have no more vacancies to fill Why on earth would anyone want to live and work in Rotherham? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Terry_Tibbs said: Do you think the rest of the UK would adopt Scandinavian/progressive levels of taxation? The relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland is a far more realistic comparison than the Scandinavian countries. There are also far greater cultural differences between those nations and the nations of the UK. Economically they are similar but culturally they are not interchangeable. Those of us who have lived and worked in England aren't suddenly going to like foreigners when crossing the border. I hope that clarifies things but i suspect you're too hard of thinking for the point to sink home. Much love, Terry You're probably right Those of you who live in England probably don't like foreigners 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Tibbs Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, carpetmonster said: If you’re accusing me of being patriotic you couldn’t be further from the truth. What about my actual point tho? You presumably like public services because you use them frequently. Higher earners use public services the least and many would rather keep more of their income for themselves. The threshold at which is becomes worth doing will vary depending on the individual. If it was a 60% top rate vs a 45% top we'd see significant numbers of highers crossing the border. 1 hour ago, itzdrk said: Please clarify why working in England means you hate foreigners? I don't. My point was living in England i wouldn't feel like i'm a "foreign" country. If i'm in Bavaria i feel like like a foreigner. The word foreign doesn't have negative connotations for me. If tax divergence is a problem under devolution the problem doesn't disappear by having a physical border. Many Scots feel equally at home living in England or Wales is what i'm getting at. Edit: Just noticed the typo. I meant to say feel like. 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: Made up nonsenese and hyperbole. Again there is no evidence that what you are suggesting happens in similar normal countries. https://theconversation.com/finlands-brain-drain-what-happens-to-small-countries-when-the-talent-leaves-79952 http://www.nordiclabourjournal.org/nyheter/news-2023/article.2023-02-23.1819792742 https://yle.fi/a/74-20022735 Edited March 19, 2023 by Terry_Tibbs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: ^^This.... but these "its left a left wing" party numpties just don't get it. Scotland is hamstrung under devolution.......and that cannot be neaningfully changed until independence. The SNP needs to appeal across the political spectrum with the unifying factor being independence as the first and foremost political priority. Mitigating the worst effects of austerity policies though is the right thing to fo. That's not appealing to the left wing but being decent human beings. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing what you can within the limitations and pointing out the limits of what can be done. Edited March 19, 2023 by DeeTillEhDeh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted March 19, 2023 Share Posted March 19, 2023 Between Terrence and Granny... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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