The Very Meh Humza Yousaf Thread.

[StellarHibee]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

It's not a question of can but should. Spending money and yet more political capital on a fringe issue of no priority to the vast majority of the Scottish people is a terrible look.

There have been numerous "fringe issues" over the past century, such as giving black people the right to vote or allowing gay people to get married. The only terrible look here is the UK Government forcing the Scottish Government to spend money on a court case in yet another effort to halt progress.

[vikingTON]

44 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

There have been numerous "fringe issues" over the past century, such as giving black people the right to vote or allowing gay people to get married. The only terrible look here is the UK Government forcing the Scottish Government to spend money on a court case in yet another effort to halt progress.

The SG isn't 'forced' to do any such thing. The onus is now on the UK Government to square gender recognition with the Equality Act (a reserved issue) and everyone should be wished good luck dealing with that toxic mess. 

Only fanatics and the fruitloop Greens believe this to be a suitable hill for the SG to die on. 

[StellarHibee]

Just now, virginton said:

The SG isn't 'forced' to do any such thing. The onus is now on the UK Government to square gender recognition with the Equality Act (a reserved issue) and everyone should be wished good luck dealing with that toxic mess. 

Only fanatics and the fruitloop Greens believe this to be a suitable hill for the SG to die on. 

What do you suggest the alternative is then? That they simply do nothing at all? Could you imagine if that was the same attitude taken throughout key moments in history every time the anti-progressives got in the way? The SNP have had a lot of f**k ups in recent times, but this isn't one of them.

The onus isn't on the UK Government to do anything. They are anti-progressive and have a long running history of being anti-progressive and using every trick they can to try and slow down and completely halt progression.

Only a person who has never picked up a history book fails to see the pattern here.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

There have been numerous "fringe issues" over the past century, such as giving black people the right to vote or allowing gay people to get married. The only terrible look here is the UK Government forcing the Scottish Government to spend money on a court case in yet another effort to halt progress.

I lean towards the view that Sturgeon should've just rammed through this bill (or ideally an improved one) five years ago when the zeitgeist was very different. Her lack of ideological conviction and over-commitment to the big tent concept saw her too scared to upset reactionaries. That was then, though. I don't have a definitive stance on what should be done now. So I'm more responding to your first sentence here.

In this link, Gallup describe their polling data of white Americans during the civil rights movement. It shows that white Americans were against violent protests by Civil Rights activists. It also shows that white Americans were against peaceful protests by Civil Rights activists too. A year after the march that culminated in MLK's I Have a Dream speech, 74% of white Americans polled as being against such displays.

https://news.gallup.com/vault/246167/protests-seen-harming-civil-rights-movement-60s.aspx

Black rights in 1960s USA and trans rights in 2020s Scotland and UK are very different cases so I'm hesitant to draw parallels. One thing I'm reasonably comfortable pointing out, though, is how both show public opposition can be increased over time due to media propaganda. The Gallup polling shows how white opposition to Civil Rights grew over time and especially after high profile protests, when hostile media coverage would've been strongest. (An exception was a short-lived increase in public sympathy following MLK's assassination).

We've really seen this with opposition to trans rights in Scotland and UK. Theresa May was openly suggesting her own version of the GRR bill back in 2017 to very little backlash, even from her fellow Conservatives. That was back when the Tories had Brexit as their culture war issue of need. Brexit has gone now so they and their surrogate media need a new manufactured wedge issue to hijack public discourse with. We can see the effect of the media propaganda even just on this forum. Folk who've never posted before in the politics section are suddenly appearing to comment. Not on the things that affect their lives - housing, healthcare, education or economic issues. No, they're appearing just to comment on trans people. That's suddenly become their burning issue. They're dutifully obliging their preferred media propaganda sources.

It's frustrating but it may be that when you're up against too large a barrier - the entire UK media and political establishment plus an unthinking, obedient public - now might not be the opportune time to push. The opposition is fully mobilised at the moment.

[Iain]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

It's not a question of can but should. Spending money and yet more political capital on a fringe issue of no priority to the vast majority of the Scottish people is a terrible look. The SG is not exactly free of other issues it could be tackling in society right now and will be punished by the electorate for showing the 'wrong' priorities. 

Minority rights are never a priority for most people. They still need to be advanced whenever possible.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Iain said:

Minority rights are never a priority for most people. They still need to be advanced whenever possible.

It's possible to win this proposed court case but is it likely? I'm confident Labour's current anti-trans stance will soften significantly once they (most likely) defeat the Tories in the next election. A similar bill could be tried again after that point and will probably get Labour government backing in Westminster.

[welshbairn]

26 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

It's possible to win this proposed court case but is it likely? I'm confident Labour's current anti-trans stance will soften significantly once they (most likely) defeat the Tories in the next election. A similar bill could be tried again after that point and will probably get Labour government backing in Westminster.

The court case won't be decided until after the next general election anyway, I think it was important to set the appeal in motion, this week was the last opportunity to do so. You can't just accept Westminster blocking a 2/3rds majority in Holyrood over a devolved matter, especially on such flimsy grounds.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The court case won't be decided until after the next general election anyway, I think it was important to set the appeal in motion, this week was the last opportunity to do so. You can't just accept Westminster blocking a 2/3rds majority in Holyrood over a devolved matter, especially on such flimsy grounds.

Ok, I didn't realise that about the length of time it'd take. I agree on the section 35 aspect.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

Ok, I didn't realise that about the length of time it'd take. I agree on the section 35 aspect.

I think the delay is quite fortuitous, gives time for the hysteria to settle down and some of the misunderstandings, exaggerations and blatant lies about the actual differences the GRR bill would make compared to the situation now.

Edited April 14, 2023 by welshbairn

[DeeTillEhDeh]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I think the delay is quite fortuitous, gives time for the hysteria to settle down and some of the misunderstandings, exaggerations and blatant lies about the actual differences the GRR bill would make compared to the situation now.

I'm not so sure - another 18 months of inaccurate bullshit and downright lies in the MSM more likely.

[ScotiaNostra]

can work either way, it can give time for it die down or some compromise is reached or its a constant stream of negativity and focus away from other topics

[Abdul_Latif]

16 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

I'm not so sure - another 18 months of inaccurate bullshit and downright lies in the MSM more likely.

Isn’t it likely to become irrelevant anyway cause of the amendments to the EA and birth sex as a defined / protected characteristic?

[The_Kincardine]

10 hours ago, StellarHibee said:

Your Conservative Party seems to think that it is. Just look at their Judicial Review and Courts bill which allows them to overrule court decisions that they don't like.

You have to be constitutionally tin-eared to think that a court holding a government to account is, to quote you, "shambolic".  That you cite the equally constitutionally tin-eared Conservative party to support you just confirms this.

[StellarHibee]

28 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You have to be constitutionally tin-eared to think that a court holding a government to account is, to quote you, "shambolic".  That you cite the equally constitutionally tin-eared Conservative party to support you just confirms this.

You say that a government bill having to go through the courts isn't shambolic, while actively supporting a party that implemented a bill (with no legal scrutiny), that effectively allows them to overrule decisions taken by judge and jury that may attempt to block any future bills that they implement.

Cognitive dissonance is a real struggle for you I see.

[The_Kincardine]

32 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

You say that a government bill having to go through the courts isn't shambolic, while actively supporting a party that implemented a bill (with no legal scrutiny), that effectively allows them to overrule decisions taken by judge and jury that may attempt to block any future bills that they implement.

I've said, umpteen times on here, that I've not voted for the Conservative party for years.  Indeed, here's a post I made in June of 2021 which pretty-much writes the script that the neds, boors and Shinners of Nationalism have acted out over recent weeks:

On 18/06/2021 at 19:56, The_Kincardine said:

As I have said a few times, I haven't voted Tory in local or national elections since Boris became party leader.  I don't like Brexit, I don't like him and I don't like his government so, naturally, I adjust my vote accordingly. I was impressed with Sarah Green's campaign - as mentioned on the quiz thread - and delighted with her win yesterday and was pleased to send just a small message of, "We don't like who you are or what you're doing" to the government.

This is in sharp contrast to the daft wee tartan gonks on here that you identify with who, faced with a deeply incompetent government and a duplicitous and monomaniacal FM decided in May that what Scotland needs  is five more years of The Murrells supported by Humza, James Dornan and John Swinney.  Their message to the government?  "We're mushrooms.  We've been kept in the dark and fed shit for years.  Five more years of it, please."

I take no pleasure* in assessing the ignorance and short-sightedness of P&B's DWTGs.

*every pleasure

[StellarHibee]

4 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

I've said, umpteen times on here, that I've not voted for the Conservative party for years.

There hasn't been a UK general election for years.

[The_Kincardine]

2 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

There hasn't been a UK general election for years.

"I haven't voted Tory in local or national elections since Boris became party leader."  That includes the Amersham and Chesham by-election which returned the fragrant Sarah Green (LibDem) to the commons.

Do keep up, SloMo.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

45 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

the fragrant Sarah Green

Yeah, not creepy at all. 

[The_Kincardine]

28 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Yeah, not creepy at all. 

Just a simple moniker like, "The vacuous Jupe".  Something we all agree on.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

20 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Just a simple moniker like, "The vacuous Jupe".  Something we all agree on.

*Hic*

Shit, sorry used some asterisks there. Hope this doesn't result in you abusing the report function again 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Benjamin_Nevis