The Very Meh Humza Yousaf Thread.

[Antlion]

21 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

That the Nats' new fav phrase references a Confederate song is true.
That Scotland built many dozens of 'blockade running' ships for the Confederacy is true.

 

Don’t you mean the UK? Why are you intent on drawing an international border  between Scotland and England and imposing it on history? Bloody Natwit.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

That the Nats' new fav phrase references a Confederate song is true.
That Scotland built many dozens of 'blockade running' ships for the Confederacy is true.

No need to feel sorry for me but thanks for the sentiment.

Edit:  Wherever the UF went the Saltire went too.  Scotland was the most important part of Empire, pound for pound.  And yes, using the old SA flag may have been a better joke in my head than in its execution and I'd not do it again.

As ever, it's your instance on disingenuous framing of these issues and events that needs rebuttal.

On 05/05/2023 at 01:28, The_Kincardine said:

Well spotted, that diddy! 

As I said at the time...it was to connect Scotland with their big Confederate pals to the west.  Scotland so desperate for tobacco and cotton that Glasgow made many dozens of ships to run the Union blockades.  Sent out with war material and returned with cotton and tobacco to feed the mills of Paisley, Glasgow and Lanarkshire.

During this time Britain's Royal Navy was, of course, trying desperately to blockade ports in West Africa against slave trading.  In contrast to the slavey-loving Jocks.

You conveniently left out the fact that many of the ships built on the Clyde were taken to Liverpool and registered there as it was the main base of Confederate operations in the UK. And that the war material was procured from London based arms manufacturers with credit and finance arranged with London based institutions. And that the cotton coming back was also for the mills of Northern England who had seen an alarming drop in production and high unemployment (many of course refused to work with the Confederate cotton to their credit).

So not really a case of Scotland being pals with the Confederate US at all then, with support for the South based amongst the British establishment and landed gentry with the middle and working classes against it (if they even had an opinion on it)

[MazzyStar]

10 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

And yes, using the old SA flag may have been a better joke in my head than in its execution and I'd not do it again.

What’s the joke? 

[Guest]

Some other shite Kincardine has put there needs rebutted. The idea that the British elite were ever anti-slavery.

Their decision to end the trans-Atlantic slave trade was a calculated political and economic move after losing their biggest slave colony, the USA. For 200 years slavery built their empire ahead of their rivals until they realised a point had been reached where depriving their rivals of slaves would better secure profits. The UK still went on to maintain hundreds of thousands of slaves in its colonies, particularly in the Caribbean. "Ending the slave trade" meant not letting UK's competitors -  Spain, France, USA, Portugal, Netherlands -  import any more slaves. The slaves the British lost in the USA were replaced with workers in India who, while not chattel like West Africans, were de facto enslaved through forced labour. This is why India was referred to as UK's "jewel in the crown". It was an enormous pool of free labour which none of UK's rivals had anything close to in their empires without the chattel slavery. 

Anglocentric historical revisionism stops folk learning about who the actual abolishionists were, namely the enslaved people themselves. Emancipation was achieved through the Demerara Rebellion in Guyana, the Maroon Wars in Jamaica, Bussa's Rebellion in Barbados, the St Joseph's Mutiny in Trinidad, the Haitian Revolution, and many other struggles.

Edited May 7, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[git-intae-thum]

Happy to draw a border from Tweed to Sark when it suits the Scotland and Scots bad narrative.

An even more ridiculous position when it is combined with a warped Britnat alternative history narrative.

 

[ScotiaNostra]

Back to the topic. It deosnt feel like Humza has made his mark yet. Hes clearly been overshadowed by events but in saying that its difficult to see how even without that he would have made much impression. Its between now and summer recess, whenever that starts? He needs to step up a bit and show some public leadership. 

Thats not to say he isnt doing a good job quietly in the background he may well be and that will start to show over time if he is but from what we are seeing, theres nothing really yet that would say hes doing a good job, theres just nothing really neither good or bad at moment.

[Binos]

Ill thought out shit storm being created by the proposed legal changes 

Humza kicking off in exactly same vein as his predecessor 

[Trogdor]

32 minutes ago, Binos said:

Ill thought out shit storm being created by the proposed legal changes 

Humza kicking off in exactly same vein as his predecessor 

I would be firing the rape trials without juries into the sea. I wouldn't even be doing a pilot. This is another example of terrible policy imo.

Jury trials aren't the reason that rape convictions are so low. This is not the silver bullet that some think it is.

[Binos]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

I would be firing the rape trials without juries into the sea. I wouldn't even be doing a pilot. This is another example of terrible policy imo.

Jury trials aren't the reason that rape convictions are so low. This is not the silver bullet that some think it is.

Whether they are or aren't the reason 

It's another example of a policy just being fired out there without understanding the consequences that will unfold 

[Salt n Vinegar]

44 minutes ago, Binos said:

Whether they are or aren't the reason 

It's another example of a policy just being fired out there without understanding the consequences that will unfold 

If the lawyers continue to lose their minds over the abolition of the "not proven" verdict, maybe the best idea would be to abolish the "not guilty" one instead. 

After all, it is up to the prosecution to prove their case. The obvious options for the jury are therefore that the case is "proven" or "not proven". 

If "not proven" is abolished, the cynic in me wonders if there would be less loot in it for the lawyers as they won't be spending valuable court time in trying to convince jurors of their clients' innocence. 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Salt n Vinegar

[The_Kincardine]

22 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

If the lawyers continue to lose their minds over the abolition of the "not proven" verdict, maybe the best idea would be to abolish the "not guilty" one instead. 

In all of my 20ish years in P&B this is, singularly, the most stupid statement  I have ever read on P&B.  That includes every post from every Celtic fan, including Magee.

"If you don't like 'not proven' then do away with 'not guilty' too." 

FFS!

[Antlion]

13 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

In all of my 20ish years in P&B this is, singularly, the most stupid statement  I have ever read on P&B.  That includes every post from every Celtic fan, including Magee.

 

Pure grievance-fuelled hatred. You love to see it. 

[Wee Bully]

21 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

In all of my 20ish years in P&B this is, singularly, the most stupid statement  I have ever read on P&B.  That includes every post from every Celtic fan, including Magee.

"If you don't like 'not proven' then do away with 'not guilty' too." 

FFS!

In court, you either prove the position or you don’t.

The logical position is the old Scots verdicts of Proven and Not Proven.  Sadly, we were influenced by English law, and “guilty” wormed its way in.

 

 

[The_Kincardine]

9 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

In court, you either prove the position or you don’t.

The logical position is the old Scots verdicts of Proven and Not Proven.  Sadly, we were influenced by English law, and “guilty” wormed its way in.

There it is.  Blame the fucking English.  For everything.

[Salt n Vinegar]

8 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

In all of my 20ish years in P&B this is, singularly, the most stupid statement  I have ever read on P&B.  That includes every post from every Celtic fan, including Magee.

"If you don't like 'not proven' then do away with 'not guilty' too." 

FFS!

This gets worse. 

My post said "instead" not "too". 

Try putting more ice in it, old chap. 

[StellarHibee]

9 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

There it is.  Blame the fucking English.  For everything.

Terrific. England can be the cause of 99% of our problems, then play victim when they're called out on it. You really have this tactic mastered.

[Iain]

13 hours ago, Binos said:

Whether they are or aren't the reason 

It's another example of a policy just being fired out there without understanding the consequences that will unfold 

It's not just been fired out there, it's been proposed by a fully informed senior judge following a robust review.

[strichener]

6 hours ago, Iain said:

It's not just been fired out there, it's been proposed by a fully informed senior judge following a robust review.

It was 1 recommendation.  There were plenty of other reasons why conviction rates are lower than for other crime. Guess how many of these other issues are being addressed.

[orfc]

SNP: "Instead of charging straight for independence, let's convince the electorate by showing how good we are by making new laws and governing and that"

*Later*

SNP: "Hmm, we appear to have turned every piece of legislation we've touched into a festering pile of unworkable and divisive dung"

SNP's Dad: "Terry, you're a stupid b*****d"

[Binos]

7 hours ago, Iain said:

It's not just been fired out there, it's been proposed by a fully informed senior judge following a robust review.

Clearly nowhere near robust enough