SNP Lies, Corruption and Hypocrisy- add them here

[lichtgilphead]

14 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

Here we go again:

Definition (UDI) or "unilateral secession" is a formal process leading to the establishment of a new state by a subnational entity which declares itself independent and sovereign.'

Here's Jedi's first lie. He's cut off the last 12 words of the definition, and added a full stop after "sovereign". The full wikipedia quote is "A unilateral declaration of independence (UDI) or "unilateral secession" is a formal process leading to the establishment of a new state by a subnational entity which declares itself independent and sovereign without a formal agreement with the state from which it is seceding."

Having searched the internet for Jedi's quote (without the full stop that he added), it only appears to exist in 4 places (Wikipedia, The National, The Pressreader copy of the National and a comment on a Wings article)

On each and every occasion, the word sovereign is followed by "without a formal agreement with the state from which it is seceding"

These last 12 words make quite a difference to the definition, don't they!

 

Jedi's second lie is that his two quotes show that Humza planned a UDI

14 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/snp-scottish-westminster-nicola-sturgeon-first-minister-b2363561.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66812774.amp

Like all his previous links, the phrase "unilateral declaration of independence" or the acronym "UDI" don't appear. However, words like "negotiation" are prominent. How can a negotiated seccession be considered to be " "without a formal agreement with the state from which it is seceding"?

 

Jedi's third lie is that I "have lied about Labour's '£18 billion cuts'"

I have never said that Labour plan £18 billion worth of cuts. I have quoted Jedi's own source (the IFS spokesman) who said that Labour plan to make between £6 billion and £16 billion worth of cuts during the next parliament. Jedi has not answered my question about how this squares with Anas Sarwar's statement ""Read my lips - no austerity under Labour"?

 

The rest of his rant appears to blame Liz Truss for Labour's future cuts, and he then goes on to call Kate Forbes a Thatcherite. 

In response, I would suggest that he googles 'Starmer Thatcher' and has a look at all the articles from December last year about Starmer praising Thatcher, Sir Keir would have been a great fit for Thatcher's cabinet, wouldn't he.

 

6 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

You could take a blow torch to @Jedi2's neck.

A serial liar calling someone else a liar.

Yep, that just about sums him up

[Jedi2]

Yousaf's 'plan' whatever way it is spun, was to 'declare' that, with the most seats at a GE that Scotland was then 'Independent'. For him to (also) declare that there would be a 'period of negotiation' on sorting out the details of that (presumably division of assets, debt share, towing Trident to the South of England) is semantics with regard to 'involving the partner you are leaving' in this case, the rUK...as the 'declaration' of Independence would already have been made.

What I will give Swinney, with his change of focus from most seats, make a declaration/negotiate, to most seats, ask for a Ref, is that he is playing a more clever game.

Win most seats, knowing that WM will say 'No' ramps up support for Holyrood in 2026...(its 'big, bad, Wastemonster denying democracy again)

Don't win the most seats and he can still fashion the Holyrood election as 'another shot', with another 'pro-Indy' majority being enough to...ask for another Ref, again keeping his supporters onside.

That is a lot better than Yousaf, who the public wouldn't have taken seriously with a 'declaration' on 29 odd seats, following a loss of somewhere around 20 seats to do so.

Edited June 22 by Jedi2

[lichtgilphead]

So, like I said, you lied about the definition of UDI, and about Yousaf wanting to declare UDI. 

I think we are done here.

Still no answer about Sarwar's ""Read my lips - no austerity under Labour" quote though. It's almost as if you don't want to address the matter!

[Jedi2]

Austerity is of course deep cuts to public services pretty much across the board (kind of like the Growth Commission plan), not 'between £6 and £16 billlion) of unprotected budgets which miss out the 'big' areas of Health, Education, Benefits etc

 

Let's imagine for a moment that the SNP's Manifesto was implemented so:

Call for a Ceasefire in Gaza and recognise Palestine as a state (seems to be a 'top' priority at the moment going by their Social Media). But, they get their wish..presumably the Israeli govt shrugs and says 'so what'

We are imagining that they have most seats, so ask for a Ref...UK govt says No.

Spend £28 billion a year on Green Energy....as well as no cuts to public services. So public debt is pushed up significantly over 100% in order to borrow the money. Money markets are spooked, the pound plummets and inflation goes back up along with prices..or of course you can hike up taxes on those high earners on £28,000 again...they must have more disposable income by now.

Devolve Broadcasting..fair enough..more time for BBC Alba

Scrap Trident: Saves £3 billion a year (drop in the ocean for public services), but decommissioning costs...around £3 billion as well.

Rejoin the EU: Should be a smooth enough process without another Referendum...or maybe not

Scrap the Two Child Benefit Cap: Fair enough...suspect that will happen in the next 5 years anyway.

Can see why a large cohort of SNP MPs will make a significant impact at Westminster over the next  5 years.

 

 

 

 

 

[btb]

8 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Austerity is of course deep cuts to public services pretty much across the board (kind of like the Growth Commission plan), not 'between £6 and £16 billlion) of unprotected budgets which miss out the 'big' areas of Health, Education, Benefits etc

 

Let's imagine for a moment that the SNP's Manifesto was implemented so:

Call for a Ceasefire in Gaza and recognise Palestine as a state (seems to be a 'top' priority at the moment going by their Social Media). But, they get their wish..presumably the Israeli govt shrugs and says 'so what'

We are imagining that they have most seats, so ask for a Ref...UK govt says No.

Spend £28 billion a year on Green Energy....as well as no cuts to public services. So public debt is pushed up significantly over 100% in order to borrow the money. Money markets are spooked, the pound plummets and inflation goes back up along with prices..or of course you can hike up taxes on those high earners on £28,000 again...they must have more disposable income by now.

Devolve Broadcasting..fair enough..more time for BBC Alba

Scrap Trident: Saves £3 billion a year (drop in the ocean for public services), but decommissioning costs...around £3 billion as well.

Rejoin the EU: Should be a smooth enough process without another Referendum...or maybe not

Scrap the Two Child Benefit Cap: Fair enough...suspect that will happen in the next 5 years anyway.

Can see why a large cohort of SNP MPs will make a significant impact at Westminster over the next  5 years.

When was the last time you made a non-politix post?

You could save yourself a lot of time by just posting "SNP bad".

[lichtgilphead]

13 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Austerity is of course deep cuts to public services pretty much across the board (kind of like the Growth Commission plan), not 'between £6 and £16 billlion) of unprotected budgets which miss out the 'big' areas of Health, Education, Benefits etc

 

Let's imagine for a moment that the SNP's Manifesto was implemented so:

Call for a Ceasefire in Gaza and recognise Palestine as a state (seems to be a 'top' priority at the moment going by their Social Media). But, they get their wish..presumably the Israeli govt shrugs and says 'so what'

We are imagining that they have most seats, so ask for a Ref...UK govt says No.

Spend £28 billion a year on Green Energy....as well as no cuts to public services. So public debt is pushed up significantly over 100% in order to borrow the money. Money markets are spooked, the pound plummets and inflation goes back up along with prices..or of course you can hike up taxes on those high earners on £28,000 again...they must have more disposable income by now.

Devolve Broadcasting..fair enough..more time for BBC Alba

Scrap Trident: Saves £3 billion a year (drop in the ocean for public services), but decommissioning costs...around £3 billion as well.

Rejoin the EU: Should be a smooth enough process without another Referendum...or maybe not

Scrap the Two Child Benefit Cap: Fair enough...suspect that will happen in the next 5 years anyway.

Can see why a large cohort of SNP MPs will make a significant impact at Westminster over the next  5 years.

 

It took you nearly 2 weeks to come up with that?

Pathetic.

[Cheese]

[Laid Back Maverick]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cevwdy7llrlo

*Jim Sillars klaxon*

[Freedom Farter]

40 minutes ago, Laid Back Maverick said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cevwdy7llrlo

*Jim Sillars klaxon*

His letter:

https://archive.ph/jP8RA

Edited July 10 by Freedom Farter

[Billy Jean King]

16 minutes ago, Laid Back Maverick said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cevwdy7llrlo

*Jim Sillars klaxon*

According to the Heil it's further proof of the SNP tearing itself apart despite the person actually criticising not being a member of the SNP. If nothing else it shows where the BBC in Scotland are currently with regards to the party, on a par with the Heil and Express basically. 

[Freedom Farter]

We're now in the 20th year of Jim Sillars demanding John Swinney's resignation.

Edited July 10 by Freedom Farter

[Binos]

Why is the bbc reporting on him (sillars), 2 days in a row

The man is a complete irrelevance 

[Binos]

Answer own question 

They, bbc, are trying to finish the job, as starmer put it, part 2

The next 2 years will be a daily diet of snp bad headlines from a funded by Scottish taxpayers broadcaster

Edited July 10 by Binos

[Laid Back Maverick]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

According to the Heil it's further proof of the SNP tearing itself apart despite the person actually criticising not being a member of the SNP. If nothing else it shows where the BBC in Scotland are currently with regards to the party, on a par with the Heil and Express basically. 

I thought he was still a member, despite donating to Labour and previously promoting Alba.

He's an irreverence. It's the type of journalism I'd expect from local newspapers who print letters from councillors as if it's objective news.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Politics is is littered with people whose time has come and gone, but whose egos will not allow them to depart quietly.  The SNP is no more immune to this phenomenon than any other party.  Jim Sillars was a very good and passionate orator with a decent political brain but he now cuts a rather sad figure as an elderly man shaking his fist at the world.  Alex Neill at least had the merit of consistency; he was a self-opinionated blowhard back in the day, a stance he has steadfastly maintained - see also Ian Blackford, Fergus Ewing and sundry others.

But there is a serious issue here.  My time in the SNP confirmed that it is more a collective of people linked mostly by one overarching aim, that of achieving Scottish independence, rather than a conventional, structured political party with a cohesive position on a range of policies fit to address day-to-day life.  Added to which, in stark contrast to the number of true believers, there is in my opinion a paucity of serious political thinkers and economic strategists in the party with the ability to engender support outwith the core support base and into, for example, the business community.

And yet, and yet.  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon became towering figures in the UK political firmament, to the extent that despite my assessment above the SNP became the dominant force in Scottish politics over the last quarter century, to the extent that the thought of September 2014 still sends shivers through the British Establishment.  Ironic then that it was probably another political blowhard, Gordon Brown, who saved the 'precious union'.

But as the song says these days have gone, and possibly with them the best hope of Scottish Independence.  And of course the unionist shills will delight in dancing on the SNP's grave, but the truth is that what has just happened politically had for a while now a ring of inevitability.  The big question now surely must be not what becomes of the SNP but rather what happens for the almost 50% of Scots who still express a desire for independence ?

[Granny Danger]

22 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

 

But as the song says these days have gone, and possibly with them the best hope of Scottish Independence.  And of course the unionist shills will delight in dancing on the SNP's grave, but the truth is that what has just happened politically had for a while now a ring of inevitability.  The big question now surely must be not what becomes of the SNP but rather what happens for the almost 50% of Scots who still express a desire for independence ?

F*ck sakes man, Labour just took 35.3% of the vote in Scotland at a time when the SNP is in disarray and people were desperate to send the Tories a message.

I wouldn’t be shuffling dirt on to the mouldering corpse of the Independence movement quite yet.

[Freedom Farter]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Added to which, in stark contrast to the number of true believers, there is in my opinion a paucity of serious political thinkers and economic strategists in the party with the ability to engender support outwith the core support base and into, for example, the business community.

And yet, and yet.  Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon became towering figures in the UK political firmament, to the extent that despite my assessment above the SNP became the dominant force in Scottish politics over the last quarter century, to the extent that the thought of September 2014 still sends shivers through the British Establishment.

There's a contradiction there. The Scottish economy is not distinct from the British economy and therefore the Scottish establishment - which includes the upper levels of business in Scotland - is not distinct from the British establishment, its a part of it. You're not going to get Scottish business leaders on board with a project for greater wealth redistribution in society. Salmond tried to get around this by promoting an Irish political economy to Scottish business leaders but a Norwegian political economy to the mass electorate. This mixed message and deliberate vagueness left a lot of voters unsure in 2014. 

[Binos]

8 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

There's a contradiction there. The Scottish economy is not distinct from the British economy and therefore the Scottish establishment - which includes the upper levels of business in Scotland - is not distinct from the British establishment, its a part of it. You're not going to get Scottish business leaders on board with a project for greater wealth redistribution in society. Salmond tried to get around this by promoting an Irish political economy to Scottish business leaders but a Norwegian political economy to the mass electorate. This mixed message and deliberate vagueness left a lot of voters unsure in 2014. 

What left a lot of voters unsure was the deluge of negative headlines trotted out by the press

The real debate was never allowed to get off the ground or to second base

A tactic which worked and has been continued to this day

Edited July 10 by Binos

[O'Kelly Isley III]

3 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

F*ck sakes man, Labour just took 35.3% of the vote in Scotland at a time when the SNP is in disarray and people were desperate to send the Tories a message.

I wouldn’t be shuffling dirt on to the mouldering corpse of the Independence movement quite yet.

The key phrase there is 'SNP in disarray'.  I'm struggling to see how that situation is  going to be altered, either soon or in the medium term.

[TONTROOPER]

6 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

The key phrase there is 'SNP in disarray'.  I'm struggling to see how that situation is  going to be altered, either soon or in the medium term.

In what sense are the SNP in disarray.There is no challenge to the leadership.Licking their wounds after a bad election result...yes.

Taking time out to 'post mortem' the results and consider future strategy does not indicate 'disarray' in my book.