How would EPL managers get on in Scotland?

[BukyOHare]

Guys at work today were discussing the Man City v Arsenal game and the chat progressed to the merits of the top managers like Guardiola.

At City he's got an open cheque book, a collection of the best players in the world in his starting eleven, unrivalled strength in depth in his squad and more staff than probably go to watch a Lowland League game.

I'm just wondering whether Guardiola could replicate relative success at, for example, an average Scottish League 2 team?

Could he bring his coaching style, training methods and processes   to any level of the game or is his success and reputation built on the level of the talent he has to work with?

I suppose flipping the argument how would a lower league Scottish manager get on at Man City?

Genuinely interested in people's thoughts.

 

[Guest]

In my opinion, anyone with half a brain could finish top two with the gruesome twosome and no one could win the league with anyone else

[bobbydazzler]

that Paul Heckingbottom looks to be a top manager, just promoted to the Premier League

[2426255]

It's a shame because it's quite rare to see a manager voluntarily drop levels in terms of the players they have at their disposal. Steve Clarke did it successfully with Kilmarnock and there was the feeling he was managing at a level below his abilities - an EPL and Champions League experienced coach in the Scottish Premiership if you like, which was exciting at the time for all involved.

[Cptn Hooch]

Pep has said before that to play his way, he needs the best players in the world. Can't imagine Gregg Wylde could replicate what Bernardo Silva does at City. A good football coach is one that recruits well and improves players and that's the same at any level. Look at Chelsea and their bottomless pit of money this season. It hasn't helped them any because they recruited the wrong players (who are undoubtedly talented) for what they wanted to do. As mentioned above, even Pep Guardiola isn't winning the Scottish Premiership with someone like St Johnstone, but I don't doubt a top manager could be a success at a lower level club, given time. What that success looks like depends on the club in question

[NorthernLights]

I think there would be a genuine chance that if either half of the OF appointed Frank Lampard and gave him the whole season to work his magic they'd end up relegated.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

Given the standard of the league, it's managers with a more agricultural background that would be most likely to successfully adapt. Jeremy Clarkson could probably make a decent fist of it.  

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Guardiola would be a successful manager wherever he went. He’s brilliant, the second best manager in Premier League history. Average EPL managers like Clarke & Rodgers have come up to Scotland and found it a piece of piss, even Gerrard was successful. I’m sure Pep would be alright, he’s shown himself to be pretty adaptable by managing in Spain, England & Germany already.

[itzdrk]

Job swap: Dick Campbell for Pep.  

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Top Formula One drivers are probably pretty good at driving just about anything but that doesn't mean they'd make the best delivery drivers for Amazon

ETA: I've just realised that Jeff Bezoz could afford to test this hypothesis, If you're reading this Jeff then keep us informed

Edited April 27, 2023 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Guardiola would be a successful manager wherever he went. He’s brilliant, the second best manager in Premier League history. Average EPL managers like Clarke & Rodgers have come up to Scotland and found it a piece of piss, even Gerrard was successful. I’m sure Pep would be alright, he’s shown himself to be pretty adaptable by managing in Spain, England & Germany already.

Judging managers on their success with the bigot twins is just pointless. He's also managed top teams with open checkbooks everywhere he's went.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

6 minutes ago, Empty It said:

Judging managers on their success with the bigot twins is just pointless. He's also managed top teams with open checkbooks everywhere he's went.

No it’s not. Deila was a shit manager for Celtic, Rodgers came in and turned them into an absolute machine. Gerrard stopped ten in a row, an objectively good achievement. Clarke got sacked by diddy clubs like West Brom & Reading and still came up here and was one of the best managers in the league.

You’re right though, I reckon one of the best managers of all time would struggle in our dogshit league 

[Satoshi]

What makes the spfl a dogshit league exactly?

Is there any nation of similar size with a better league?

Pound for pound it's always done excellently.

In answer to the op, it's a mixed bag. In the EPL most of the managers are top of their profession and would of course thrive elsewhwere.

However, if you look in the past 5-10 years there will be loads of ex EPL managers out of a job who teams in the spfl wouldn't touch. Guardiola would thrive, most others are a job or two away from the scrapheap.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

31 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

What makes the spfl a dogshit league exactly?

Is there any nation of similar size with a better league?

Pound for pound it's always done excellently.

In answer to the op, it's a mixed bag. In the EPL most of the managers are top of their profession and would of course thrive elsewhwere.

However, if you look in the past 5-10 years there will be loads of ex EPL managers out of a job who teams in the spfl wouldn't touch. Guardiola would thrive, most others are a job or two away from the scrapheap.

I’m assuming you’re referring to the Scottish Premiership and not the SPFL as a whole here. You don’t even know what the league is called so maybe pipe down. 

It’s of a comparatively dogshit standard compared to where Pep has managed before, namely Spain, Germany & England - I wasn’t talking about per capita or any wee goalpost shifting argument you’re trying to make. I wouldn’t have thought that would need explained, but here we are.

[velo army]

Clarke is probably a poor example compared to Rodgers. Also, his sacking from West Brom was ludicrously harsh given the season he'd just had with them. If Clarke had came up and skooshed the title with one of the cheeks then fair enough. He managed to take an utter jobber outfit and got third and a European place, getting great results against both OF clubs in the process. 

Vindication of the job Clarke managed to do was found the following two seasons where they finished bottom six and then relegated.

Guardiola is a superb coach, but he's a superb coach within a particular system and situation. I reckon he might be able to split the Old Firm at a team like Aberdeen or Hearts. I think De Zerbi would too. Hodgson might have some luck in that regard, but none of them are winning a title. 

 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

It would be pretty much impossible for any manager to win the title here with a non-bigot brother. I would stick exceptions in here for De Zerbi, Frank (not THAT Frank) and SSC who at a club like Aberdeen, Hearts or dare i say Hibs with a £3-4million budget could probably win the title or at least not finish about 30 points behind the currants.

[craigkillie]

I think an elite level manager could probably have a decent crack at winning the league in Scotland with a Hearts, Hibs or Aberdeen sized club. Clarke, excellent coach though he is, isn't at a Mourinho, Klopp or Guardiola level, and yet he stood out as absolutely head and shoulders above every other manager we've ever had. Watching that team every week, it was incredible how well coached they were, he took a group of players who achieved next to nothing either side of his reign and took them to the point where they more or less matched the Old Firm across our fixtures with them, and barely lost a single game to clubs outside of the big five clubs from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen (I think a single loss v Livi?).

When it got to January 2019, with well over half of the season played, we were very much in a title race on paper. The issue was that our best player was lured away to Aberdeen, and then we really weren't able to go out in the transfer market and sign anyone worthwhile, and we ultimately finished 11 behind Rangers and 20 behind Celtic. If he had been at a club with double or treble our budget, that wouldn't have been an issue, and I do think he would have been able to sustain the form of the first half of the season - probably not quite enough to win a league, but certainly to still be within a handful of points come the end of the season. He managed to win more points than any other club in the calendar year of 2018, so it wasn't some flash in the pan.

If you then think that, say, Mourinho, is clearly a better manager, I don't see why it's fanciful to suggest that if he had a crack at it with someone like Aberdeen, he couldn't at least get close. I think he would be so far ahead of the other managers that he would win the vast majority of games against the clubs with smaller budgets.

[tamthebam]

I suspect the wily old fox Roy Hodgson could get, say, Albion Rovers promoted given decades of experience.

Arteta has experience of the Scottish League albeit it with Rangers so could do well enough I think 

Whether someone like Pep would be motivated to do their best on a wet Wednesday at the Falkirk Stadium with Bairns loonies shouting at him to get the ball up the park is perhaps debatable 

 

[Theroadlesstravelled]

9 hours ago, Satoshi said:

What makes the spfl a dogshit league exactly?

Is there any nation of similar size with a better league?

Pound for pound it's always done excellently.

In answer to the op, it's a mixed bag. In the EPL most of the managers are top of their profession and would of course thrive elsewhwere.

However, if you look in the past 5-10 years there will be loads of ex EPL managers out of a job who teams in the spfl wouldn't touch. Guardiola would thrive, most others are a job or two away from the scrapheap.

How do you define ‘done excellently’?

[SlipperyP]

Ok give Pep the Forfar job with the same budget and manpower we have at the moment. I could see him win promotion to the Championship, no more. 

Also his style of play, could he get jobbers to do that. Probably not. He would need a new philosophy as much as he trained them, they just don't have that ability to play that way.

I remember seeing a clip of Glenn Hoddle coaching Swindon players and he was spraying the ball about the park and hitting top corners in shooting practice, the players he was training, were all standing about shaking the heads, they just couldn't do what he was asking.