No to B teams

[rockson]

2 hours ago, mick90 said:

. Then West of Scotland (almost half the population and more teams than any other region) should get equal rights with Lowland-East and Highland

The WoS hasn't yet produced a club that was able to win the play-off even to join the Lowland League. How does that argue for it having equal rights with HL and LL?

[RateofKnots]

I see Maxwell went out to bump his gums to the cameras. 

I note he mentioned the fabled deloitte review and the fact it featured B teams in the report prominently. 

The report was never made public, as far as I'm aware, so he could quite readily be making that up.

[GallowayBlue]

That was reported in a newspaper in relation to Aberdeen so probably true. 

[theoriginalhedge]

2 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

As one of the more mature posters on here, this thread has me recalling the year 1967, arguably Scotland's finest season of club and international football.

Funnily enough there were only two senior divisions of 18 and 19 clubs respectively with no doubt some 'meaningless games', but that was offset somewhat by straight home/away league fixtures.

And here's a funny thing; free from the need to make every fixture 'meaningful' it was much easier to introduce younger players, and astonishingly almost every one of them was Scottish.

Look around other countries and see how many are operating small but very repetitive divisions.  You won't find many so why are we persisting with it ?

Spot on.  Maybe someday Neil Doncaster will actually admit he was wrong  and not try to block league expansion at every opportunity................or maybe I'm just being optimistic. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

7 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Well you never really know. But if the league looked like this then I think there are a fair few teams who won't be good enough to threaten the top four, but will be well clear of relegation danger. It's very early in the summer, but if we base on business so far and last year's squad. I think Bonnyrigg, Stranraer, Albion Rovers and Elgin to name four would have very little to play for. Maybe even Clyde if they don't get their act together after their shambles last year.

By the turn of the year there would 100% be clubs with nothing much to play for in this league.

Bonnyrigg
Clyde
Dumbarton
East Fife
Elgin
Forfar Athletic
Peterhead
Stenhousemuir
Spartans
Stranraer
Albion Rovers
Stirling Uni
Tranent
Brechin City
Buckie Thistle
Brora Rangers

Last season we had a situation where almost every team had something to play for up until the final weeks of the season. Arguably with the exception of Sons (who had secured second in about March). Stranraer were still in relegation danger until they brought in Scott Agnew. Forfar and Stenny still had vague playoff hopes as we moved into the final four games (I'm sure).

I know there's quite a clamour for a bigger league. And I get it. Hell I saw us play Annan Athletic six times last season. That's pretty ridiculous. But it's being in a battle for either promotion or to avoid the drop that keeps us hooked. Look at the final day of the Championship last year. What a buzz that was.

I get where you're coming from Jan, but this isn't a Saturday evening gameshow on ITV which requires to be stuffed with excitement or folk turn over or turn off.

Football-supporting outside of the Old Firm is all about commitment, perseverance and loyalty to your club.  The days of attendances veering massively depending on the importance of the fixture are gone for most clubs, especially at the lower level - if East Fife played Forfar at 2am on Easter Monday the crowd would still be 587.

Small divisions too often resemble pressured dogfights at the cost of the standard of football, whilst familiarity can lead to sterile individual fixtures.  Lifting the number of teams to say 16 or 18 would allow everyone to take a breath, and in the case of the latter there could be two automatically up and two down with third place and third bottom going into a play-off with the adjoining divisions.

And I guarantee you would see more young players featuring.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

On 05/06/2023 at 21:40, Beachcomber said:

Theatening 30% of a ten team League with relegation is just as crackers as the Conference !

Nothing is threatening, its football, your either good enough to stay in your division or not good enough, its that simple

Not sure if this is directed to my post or someone else but I will comment on it anyway.  Not meaning this personal as it maybe similar to many view in their league, sounds to me this is someone who hasn't done their research and in their own wee bubble. I'm not, i try to go to many games and different leagues and the season just finished, been to games at SPFL 1 and 2, SPFL championship, WOSFL, Lowland, EOSFL, North League, U20s development games East, West and Lowland so i like to think I'm impartial and objective in my views.

Right not, nothing wrong with 1/3 being relegated with the size of SPFL2 league this moment. The SPFL 2 is boring, (and yeah I can say that having been to a few games 22/23), playing the same teams 4 times a year, year in year out, no drama, no excitement, same faces constantly, totally stale, every team tries not to be club 42 .  Don't you understand why for many a year when a SPFL 2 team is Club 42 they now normally don't come back. The standard is higher with progressive's teams below wanting to come up so when a SPFL 2 team are relegated they wont get back for a long , long time and I fully expect Albion Rovers to be in the same situation.

  The SPFL 2 league without doubt should be bigger, opening up the pyramid, giving it more excitement, fresh teams, new faces, new and different challenges and without doubt it would not be stale for the fans.  Last season, 21/22, the WOSFL premier division had a 20 team league and 7, yes 7 were relegated, everyone thought it would be 6 until the final whistle at the Playoff to the Lowland league made it 7 relegated. No one died, no team went down the drain and every team lived to fight another day, it was excitement for all to the end, yeah and stressful and sighs of relief and so it should be.       Oh and p.s. out of the 7 relegated only 1 team were promoted back this season, again showing teams, similar to the SPFL2, don't rest on your laurels as when your relegated form the SPFL2 there is limited chance of coming back due to no automictic promotion lol

  My view and I would love as it would brighten up the Scottish Football and make it much more exciting.  If the SPFL2 was a league of 16 teams there could be 2 automatic relegation and 3rd bottom playoff, making it excitement for many at the end of the season and if the current SPFL 2 teams are good enough then none of them would go down. 

  Right now the Lowland league is, in my humble opinion, is the strongest its ever been for 23/24, with Cowdenbeath, Berwick Rangers, East Stirlingshire, Albion Rovers, all former SPFL2 teams trying to get back but there are some excellent teams putting money in to win the league and try and for promotion and it will be exciting and yes this league should be the same 2 automatic relegation and 3rd bottom playoff.
 

  This farce of a conference league that was nearly shoved down our throats hopefully has made many wake up, we cannot let this happen and protect our Scottish football, our identity and not have it torn apart from the inside.  The only people who don't want bigger relegation are clubs and fans or teams with total self interest and self preservation.  The best thing for our Football is to have the pyramid open, the excitement of trying to get promotion for many, not just a few, the nervousness, excitement, stress of trying to avoid relegation for a few, not just one.   Even the premier league has 12 teams, make it bigger and still have the cut off so Rangers and Celtic can still have their precious 3 games a league season and we can have more excitement regarding relegation and promotion to and from the leagues.

  Already our pyramid is much better as down below its exciting with teams becoming bigger, better technically and wanting to progress, the pyramid should be open completely and it wont destroy SPFL 1 and 2 teams, it will make many shine and many who have been stale and boring will have to adapt and become bigger, better and entertaining and guess what, the main beneficiaries will be you, I and all fans.

The knock on effect would be huge for these small B teams, more club managers would feel comfortable enough to blood these young players via loan deal and let them progress, get experience playing because many are talented, they just need confidence and picked to play by first teams.  Also if there was a reserve league for these B teams and players there is no doubt in my mind that this would be the best way for these young lads to improve, playing in a reserve match with 2 or 3 first teams players coming back from injury or needing game time playing with or against these lads thus they are going experience and improving themselves and learning in these games.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Greenmachine]

Two 85 year old grannies running against each other will be “competitive” but shite to watch…..

[Frank Quitely]

9 hours ago, Greenmachine said:

Two 85 year old grannies running against each other will be “competitive” but shite to watch…..

The irony of someone whose club is massively supported on the basis of religious affiliation commenting on 'competitiveness' .

[Greenmachine]

1 hour ago, Frank Quitely said:

The irony of someone whose club is massively supported on the basis of religious affiliation commenting on 'competitiveness' .

This fallacy that tiny wee leagues are “competitive” needs called out.

They are repetitive and uninteresting.

Familiarity leads to dull boring games.

[The Moonster]

11 hours ago, Greenmachine said:

Two 85 year old grannies running against each other will be “competitive” but shite to watch…..

A good analogy there, better applied to the two horse race that has dominated Scottish football for decades. And due to those two horses we've been talking about completely removing competitiveness from our leagues all in the name of "development". Once again, nobody in the lower leagues needs a lecture from you or any other OF fan. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

It's heartening to see Ian Maxwell reacting with good grace towards the tsunami of opposition to the Conference proposal.  'Self-interest' he says, I'd prefer 'a united stance on sporting integrity'. 

[gordon9736]

2 hours ago, Greenmachine said:

This fallacy that tiny wee leagues are “competitive” needs called out.

They are repetitive and uninteresting.

Familiarity leads to dull boring games.

Says the fan of one half of the duopoly that's won the top league for over 30 years. I'm sure every match day, your conversation will consist of "I wonder how much we'll win by today", where as for me, at least, and most fans at this level, it's " I hope we win." 

[Greenmachine]

3 minutes ago, gordon9736 said:

Says the fan of one half of the duopoly that's won the top league for over 30 years. I'm sure every match day, your conversation will consist of "I wonder how much we'll win by today", where as for me, at least, and most fans at this level, it's " I hope we win." 

Playing each other at least 4 times a season is mind numbingly boring.

No wonder crowds are pathetic in the lower leagues.
 

[bobbydazzler]

3 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

Playing each other at least 4 times a season is mind numbingly boring.

No wonder crowds are pathetic in the lower leagues.
 

play each other x4 in the Premier League also, so that being a reason for poor attendance doesn't add up

[Jacksgranda]

17 hours ago, theoriginalhedge said:

Correct me if I'm wrong  but with a 10 team league you  only get 9 places to visit whereas.........

If you're getting on a bit you forget you've already been there, so it's 18...

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

41 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

No wonder crowds are pathetic in the lower leagues.
 

This guy is 100% fishing here and you are all taking the bait.

[Nowhereman]

22 hours ago, The Moonster said:

The only thing I think I'd change is to put 9th down automatically. I don't really like giving teams that have been shit all season a second chance at it. Give 2nd a bye to the play off final to put a bit more weight on finishing there. I'd have that for every division too.

Just make it two up two down. Play offs in a league of ten are pretty nonsensical

[strichener]

On 14/05/2023 at 11:54, Pyramid Watcher said:

It has everything to do with it, freshening things up and playing new teams is what keeps leagues interesting.

I have a radical solution that works for everyone (well almost everyone).

We take the Premiership winners and runners up and relegate them to the League 2.  That way we get the OF into a league where they can play youngsters, we get new winners of the top league consistently and you get your new teams in the lower leagues to keep things interesting.

I acknowledge that the above is a mental way of fixing the issue of young players in Scotland but it makes far more sense that slotting a new league into the existing pyramid.

I wish we could get a proper vote on this.  Together with a clause that if it is voted down then it can't be raised again for at least 15 years.  I'm getting sick of the OF thinking they can get this passed by attrition.

 

[lanky_ffc]

On 06/06/2023 at 12:55, Shannon said:

Yeah the 1 year of no relegation would perhaps be enough for SPFL Two clubs to vote for it plus if they do go down then easier to come back up as with current structure the relegated Lowland based teams will struggle to come back up.

i'm not convinced they would vote it through. Majority of clubs care about their bottom line and if you add another 8 clubs to the SPFL, you'd be diluting the % each club gets from the prize pot.

[RateofKnots]

5 hours ago, Greenmachine said:

This fallacy that tiny wee leagues are “competitive” needs called out.

They are repetitive and uninteresting.

Familiarity leads to dull boring games.

Which of the leagues was boring this season? Provide examples.