Old Bing Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 6 hours ago, 2426255 said: I wouldn't say that. I always try to base my opinions on the reality of the situation by looking at the nuts and bolts rather than the ideal or best case scenario. I'm rarely disappointed by Scotland, but sometimes pleasantly surprised and for me that's an indicator that my expectations are set about right. Qualifying from the group was aspirational and a best case scenario. If you're going to set an aspirational target as your minimum for success then I'm not surprised you're disappointed. And none of the 3 performances you found disappointing! Personally I would say that being in the very small minority who thought it was ok is a very strong indication you don't have a scooby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 6 hours ago, 2426255 said: I wouldn't say that. I always try to base my opinions on the reality of the situation by looking at the nuts and bolts rather than the ideal or best case scenario. I'm rarely disappointed by Scotland, but sometimes pleasantly surprised and for me that's an indicator that my expectations are set about right. Qualifying from the group was aspirational and a best case scenario. If you're going to set an aspirational target as your minimum for success then I'm not surprised you're disappointed. That attitude would be fine, but unfortunately the countries we have to play against have higher ambitions and standards. A passionless meek acceptance will never overachieve. Maybe it's a Scottish thing. Even Moyes, Strachan SFA etc have the same "ach what can ye do" temperament. You can look at the nuts and bolts all day long, you'll never see the bigger picture. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 7 hours ago, 2426255 said: I wouldn't say that. I always try to base my opinions on the reality of the situation by looking at the nuts and bolts rather than the ideal or best case scenario. I'm rarely disappointed by Scotland, but sometimes pleasantly surprised and for me that's an indicator that my expectations are set about right. Qualifying from the group was aspirational and a best case scenario. If you're going to set an aspirational target as your minimum for success then I'm not surprised you're disappointed. 'The Scottish game isn't currently in a place to support that expectation. Qualification is important because it provides finance that helps grow the game in Scotland. Consistently qualifying also provides the opportunity to do well at tournaments: It becomes a numbers game.' The above comment is pie in the sky stuff. I'm struggling to see where qualifying for tournament football will finance and help grow our game significantly. Think it was estimated we earned around 10m from qualifying and drawing one match, not exactly a huge sum these days especially when we barely qualify or get positive results. The only thing that realistically will grow our game is sponsorship from TV rights. Other revenue streams that will bring in money into Scottish clubs will help, things like legalising alcohol at games again, selling more season tickets, hospitality etc. The more money clubs have, the better it can build its facilities, bring in better players/coaches, keeping young talent for longer before selling them on for higher profits rather than take the first offer that comes along. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 7 Author Share Posted August 7 2 hours ago, Butters Scotch said: I'm struggling to see where qualifying for tournament football will finance and help grow our game significantly. Ian Maxwell described qualification for Euro-2020 as transformative: Quote It's a difficult time and we need to make the best of it. It (Prize Money) is going to be very welcome. It's not just this money specifically. If qualifying for tournaments gets us back to the previous level of supporter numbers, that has a transformational impact on our game. It's about increasing engagement, sponsorship, commercial activities. And a real transformational element of this will be if we can get Hampden full for the World Cup qualifiers next season, then the Nations League the next year. If we start to get sellout crowds then all the money we get in as the Scottish FA goes back out through the clubs or grassroots game. Ian Maxwell, Nov-2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54944071 Maxwell said this after Scotland qualified for their second major tournament in 25 years in a recent (2023) interview: Quote We felt a little bit of (the impact of success) in 2021 (Euro 2020), but it was curtailed because of Covid. Germany will be great and so will 2028 at home, but the big legacy is the funding for facilities. We were at parliament last night talking to the DCMS (Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport) about the funding they have provided. This tranche is going to impact around 100 facilities and pitches across the country, which is massive. It is about changing facilities as, from a women and girls perspective, they’re not suitable. It is relaying surfaces, upgrading grass pitches, upgrading grass to synthetic, building new facilities and keeping existing ones open. It’s about making sure that no more pitches are closed in the country unless it really can’t be helped. The number of players we have post-Covid has grown and the number of girls and women playing continues to increase, but the number of pitches has decreased. You can’t have more activity and fewer places to play. Those two things don’t combine, so we need to solve that problem. It’s never really been an association focus, it has historically been local authority and Scottish government. They don’t have the finances to do it, so someone needs to and we are taking it on ourselves as we know the impact it has on the game and communities. Ian Maxwell, Nov-2023 https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5079808/2023/11/21/sfa-chief-maxwell-on-legacy-of-scotlands-euros-qualification-and-confidence-in-clarke/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 17 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Ian Maxwell described qualification for Euro-2020 as transformative: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54944071 Maxwell said this after Scotland qualified for their second major tournament in 25 years in a recent (2023) interview: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5079808/2023/11/21/sfa-chief-maxwell-on-legacy-of-scotlands-euros-qualification-and-confidence-in-clarke/ There are penty of public parks in Scotland to play football on that are laying empty and these new facilities that are apparently being built mainly with SFA money will come with maintenance and staff costs - who pays for that? I'm pretty sure anyone wanting to play on these pitches will need to pay a fee to do so and it won't necessarily be cheap. If it is free then fantastic but I am dubious. Like I said, it's all pie in the sky stuff IMO. It all sounds positive down on paper but in reality will this change anything? The source this is coming from is the chief executive of the SFA also so i'll take this with a pinch of salt until there is enough evidence of the Scottish national team improving. From what I read, the money is going to grass routes level but what about investment towards the clubs that will inevitably be developing these players from 11/12 years old? Many of our top clubs don't even own their own training facilities for example... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 (edited) 4 hours ago, 2426255 said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54944071 I liked this bit from the linked piece. It's indicative of the article's quality. "The governing body will receive 9.25m euros (£1.82m) prize money from Uefa after Scotland ended a 23-year men's major tournament exile." Maxwell's an arse anyway. Edited August 7 by Monkey Tennis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangled web Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I liked this bit from the linked piece. It's indicative of the article's quality. "The governing body will receive 9.25m euros (£1.82m) prize money from Uefa after Scotland ended a 23-year men's major tournament exile." Maxwell's an arse anyway. Jeez even Ramsdens will give you a better exchange rate than that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLanarkshireWhite Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 17 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: I liked this bit from the linked piece. It's indicative of the article's quality. "The governing body will receive 9.25m euros (£1.82m) prize money from Uefa after Scotland ended a 23-year men's major tournament exile." Maxwell's an arse anyway. Uefa probably told them there was 5 euros to the pound so we are giving you £1.82m and no-one noticed. The other £5m went the way of a nice cabal of UEFA officials. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 20 hours ago, Butters Scotch said: There are penty of public parks in Scotland to play football on that are laying empty and these new facilities that are apparently being built mainly with SFA money will come with maintenance and staff costs - who pays for that? I'm pretty sure anyone wanting to play on these pitches will need to pay a fee to do so and it won't necessarily be cheap. If it is free then fantastic but I am dubious. Like I said, it's all pie in the sky stuff IMO. It all sounds positive down on paper but in reality will this change anything? The source this is coming from is the chief executive of the SFA also so i'll take this with a pinch of salt until there is enough evidence of the Scottish national team improving. From what I read, the money is going to grass routes level but what about investment towards the clubs that will inevitably be developing these players from 11/12 years old? Many of our top clubs don't even own their own training facilities for example... You don't accept that qualifying for the Euros helps grow the game in Scotland: Fair enough, I'm not trying to change your mind. Regardless it's clear it's important to the SFA for the two previously stated reasons: The terms in Clarke's contract were last known to be directly related to qualification (2021) for major tournaments with nothing to suggest that has changed. The income generated by qualification (2021, 2023). If you don't accept how the SFA are running the Scottish game with respect to the National Team or how the income generated from qualification is distributed you have the normal options: Do something about it (Protest). Withdraw your support (money, tickets, tv-subscriptions). Moan about it to anyone that will listen (online, radio). Similar to VAR the majority go for option-3. What are you planning ahead of the Nations League games in September? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, 2426255 said: You don't accept that qualifying for the Euros helps grow the game in Scotland: Fair enough, I'm not trying to change your mind. Regardless it's clear it's important to the SFA for the two previously stated reasons: The terms in Clarke's contract were last known to be directly related to qualification (2021) for major tournaments with nothing to suggest that has changed. The income generated by qualification (2021, 2023). If you don't accept how the SFA are running the Scottish game with respect to the National Team or how the income generated from qualification is distributed you have the normal options: Do something about it (Protest). Withdraw your support (money, tickets, tv-subscriptions). Moan about it to anyone that will listen (online, radio). Similar to VAR the majority go for option-3. What are you planning ahead of the Nations League games in September? At the end of the day Steve Clarkes scotland team were embarrassingly shite, and no amount of whitaboutary is going to change that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Unfortunately, with the deafening silence from Clarke and his bosses means he isn't going anywhere. .M ore misery ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0Neils40yarder Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 On 07/08/2024 at 12:40, Butters Scotch said: There are penty of public parks in Scotland to play football on that are laying empty and these new facilities that are apparently being built mainly with SFA money will come with maintenance and staff costs - who pays for that? I'm pretty sure anyone wanting to play on these pitches will need to pay a fee to do so and it won't necessarily be cheap. If it is free then fantastic but I am dubious. Like I said, it's all pie in the sky stuff IMO. It all sounds positive down on paper but in reality will this change anything? The source this is coming from is the chief executive of the SFA also so i'll take this with a pinch of salt until there is enough evidence of the Scottish national team improving. From what I read, the money is going to grass routes level but what about investment towards the clubs that will inevitably be developing these players from 11/12 years old? Many of our top clubs don't even own their own training facilities for example... Maybe where you live there are playable public parks...however in the town I stay in (Bellshill) there is only one 3g surface available for booking and no grass parks at all...for a population of about 25,000 people 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anfield 1977 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 6 hours ago, Highlandmagar said: Unfortunately, with the deafening silence from Clarke and his bosses means he isn't going anywhere. .M ore misery ahead. Well he was the fans' choice as was Strachan. I have heard it said it's never a good idea to let the supporters pick the manager. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 @Jives MiguelIf you think scotland played well at the euros or that steve clarke is doing a good job why not come on and state your case. Instead of the pathetic background sniping. You come across as someone angry they were wrong. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 12 hours ago, Anfield 1977 said: Well he was the fans' choice as was Strachan. I have heard it said it's never a good idea to let the supporters pick the manager. I don't recall being on the interview panel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 12 hours ago, Anfield 1977 said: Well he was the fans' choice as was Strachan. I have heard it said it's never a good idea to let the supporters pick the manager. I was in favour of Clarke at the time. He was the ideal manager for the quality of squad we had then as the squad had many non-OF SPFL players and English League benchwarmers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 26 minutes ago, immcinto said: I was in favour of Clarke at the time. He was the ideal manager for the quality of squad we had then as the squad had many non-OF SPFL players and English League benchwarmers. The playing squad available to Clarke compared to his predecessors has improved in some areas, declined in others and stayed the same in others. I'd agree overall the playing squad available is better. A number of the players Clarke has capped are a quality upgrade, most of them aren't. Many of the current players were capped by McLeish, some with Strachan and a few before that. Spoiler Players have also improved during Clarke's tenure which is partly good fortune, but also partly down to the manager. McTominay, McGinn and Ferguson are obvious examples where the players club fortunes have benefitted partly as a result of decisions taken by Clarke. There are three players that significantly improve the playing squad beyond what was available to previous managers: Hickey, Gilmour and Ferguson. I wouldn't disagree if you wanted to throw in Patterson, Adams or even Dykes into that mix. Beyond that though? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, immcinto said: I was in favour of Clarke at the time. He was the ideal manager for the quality of squad we had then as the squad had many non-OF SPFL players and English League benchwarmers. Yeah tbh I was as well. With the options we had at the time he seemed like a good choice. But I got it wrong, I think alot of us did. I think as you say the quality of player we had increased and he's not the guy to be able to get the best out of these players. In terms of quality he's never coached a team as good before. And won't do again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immcinto Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, Ranana Ban said: Yeah tbh I was as well. With the options we had at the time he seemed like a good choice. But I got it wrong, I think alot of us did. I think as you say the quality of player we had increased and he's not the guy to be able to get the best out of these players. In terms of quality he's never coached a team as good before. And won't do again. It wasn't a mistake. He has done well for us considering. 5 years is enough though. His method has been rumbled and I don't see him pulling any surprises out of the bag at this stage in his career. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 55 minutes ago, immcinto said: It wasn't a mistake. He has done well for us considering. 5 years is enough though. His method has been rumbled and I don't see him pulling any surprises out of the bag at this stage in his career. Each to their own, but I think with the players we had we could have done better. The last 2 euros we will look back on as absolutely golden chances to do something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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